Empowering the community!

Awesome! I LOVE this system. I know first hand that moderation is a necessary process for any community site, blog, or podcast, yet it's a difficult and tricky one. I love the fact that you've figured a good way to put this in the hands of the community, and doing so, the impact of the moderation will most likely be more effective and hold more meaning for everyone.

thanks!
-ryan

tech question - how do you give feedback on comments? Maybe I'm overlooking it:) I didn't see a link or anything.

thanks!
-ryan

Others & I have posted comments on the pod link

Very interesting idea, Siona.  I understand from personal experience what some of the motivation behind it is.  As in life, so at Zaadz.  I will be watching how it unfolds.

Hi Ryan,

The system hasn't been implemented for comments yet.  That's still in the works as well as with all the other content on the site (bookmarks, photos, videos, etc.)

~M

thanks, Matthew!:) looking forward to it.

Great work Zaadz team. It's now getting even more addicting to work on this site and we can also distinguish between the good, the bad and the ugly :)

regards
Ameer

As with the sale to Gaiam, something inside me feels very nervous about this.

I don't mean to always be dragging my feet and resisting change, but this feels like a deep reworking of a fundamental kind of “social mathematics” that underlies a site like this, and I'm not so sure that the law of unintended consequences won't rear it's ugly head here.

The technical rational grammer of late-stage capitalism is so deeply ingrained in virtually all of us that I'm concerned that the very act of counting trust and reputation “points” (whatever they are called) will inevitably lead to competition, or commoditization.

So, good luck to all of us with this.

(And is there an option for opting out?)

“Those of you who post content that is appreciated by others develop a better reputation than those who devalue the community, and your better reputation will give you more of a 'say' on the site–that is, your input becomes more heavily weighted as a result, while those members who don't contribute to the communtiy don't have as much of a say.”
How are you going to enforce sanctions against those who would critique the community  - and why would you want to?
No thank you. I'd like to opt out.

is there a page somewhere that we can check our seed stats? good seeds/bad seeds received/sent, etc.?

If you trust a process, you should have no need to micro-manage it.  What is being implied is that there is some sort of failure in way we are communicating with each other.  I seem to be oblivious to it.  Can someone give specifics?

The system being suggested has little to do with any sense of trust.  Instead, it resembles something more like a popularity contest.  Maybe it should be renamed “Beauty Pagent” since there seems to be a need to distinguish between good, bad and ugly. 

The moment it's suggested that a particular kind of voice will be deemphasized is the moment that open dialogue is closed off….unless that is the intention here.  It becomes a way to sustain a bias toward a preferred mindset.  Be the change someone else wishes to see in the world.  Is that where it's heading?

I'd like to opt out of the plan. 

Trust System…or Judgment System?  Sending people bad seeds?  Oh, boy…a can of ugly worms has been opened!  Watch out…    

Ok, basically the Zaadz team and the people who follow the “party line” have the most clout in regulating what is “ok” and “not ok”. Whoever has a larger status (length of membership, amount of friends, etc.) can negatively impact other people's status with more weight than other Zaadz members.

If your Reputation Score falls gets too low (not that this would ever happen to you!), all content you've posted in public areas is “folded”-hidden from users who aren't logged in, and minimized to title only unless clicked by members. Also, your profile becomes visible only to community members.

If your Score really gets bad, you lose the ability to post new content to public areas on the site; content posted on your personal blog, albums, and so on, is excluded from new/hot/search, friends' blogs and notifications. You can still edit any content they you've already created, however, and can reply to messages but not send new ones. And you'll lose your seeds available, so you cannot give feedback.

Essentially, you'll lose your voice.

This might seem like a safeguard against flamers and “bad behavior”, but the real significance of this is that if the “powers that be” do not like what you are saying, they can basically make you “lose your voice”. This is censorship, and censorship is the first step on the road to totalitarianism. In effect, you have created a system of censorship and control disguised as a “friendly rating system” of “trust”. How much more Orwellian can it get? I want nothing to do with this system. I am not a flamer and I respect every individual, but I will not accept other people censoring me because they disagree with me. I might not like what someone else says, but I respect their right to say it. Freedom is a double-edged sword, and you want to have it your way only.

I thought that I joined a community of equals, but apparently some people are more “equal” than others. This system has as much to do with trust as Fox News has to do with truth. Shame on you.

the bad seeds idea seems iffy…but promoting highly virtuous stuff in a community of integrous people seems like a brilliant plan.
Surely people aren't so liberal in their fairness agendas that equal time and attention ought to be given to nonintegrous enterprises as to integrous ones…are they? Like, we wouldn't support the idea of giving Osama bin Laden equal air time to someone like Mother Theresa if we had some free air time to distribute…

Besides, the whole system seems anchored on the belief that this community is better equipped for honesty and integrity than other communities as those are the principal themes which underly the site's purpose! It is a Trust system, precisely because the idea is that users of the site CAN and SHOULD be trusted.

-Rob

Well stated, Lucid.

Hello again people, if you go to Wikipedia and search Censorship + Fascism, you'll find this:

- Control over the public appearance of the regime, also obtained with the deletion of any content that could allow opposition, suspects, or doubts on fascism.

- Constant check of the public opinion as a measuring instrument of concensus.

- Creation of national and local archives in which each citizen was filed and classified depending on his ideas, his habits, his relationship and his eventual shameful acts or situations; in this sense, censorship was used as an instrument for the creation of a state of police.

I understand in a way  the move of the organisation, but I'm a bit uncertain in a way that you are going to “measuring” people. I feel in class again, trying to earn good points. Well, that is not what I strive for.
I start with trust and I know it www. So, it starts with me and nobody else. I have no negative experience here, on the contrary. I deleted one person. It was as simple as that.
Points are the least of my concern. I will not change my attitude, but when I read Lucid, I have to say she has a point.
Team, you have to give reflection if this initiative was a good thing. I doubt it seriously. It can be felt as contraproductive as some blogs above show.
I would like to read hard prove that this measure as the only possibility. It's not a game of marbles… It ' about people. And leaving everyone of us in personal selfrespect.

Your Zaadz Ambassador.

what Lucid said, and then some.  I choose not to play this game.  How many people have already left because of this?  How do your advertiser$ feel about that?!!

I'm not sure where exactly I stand on the this whole issue….. It sounds great that the community wants to build more trust and have better moderation of activties, but I expect that we still get to voice out our opinions.
Zaadz is great because we learn ,love and care about our world and  unite in our diversity and live in our similarties…well lets see what the future unfolds :)

This will be interesting to watch and participate in.  I do like the concept, andI think that the 'good and bad seeds' will help promote more kind words all around.  
Thoughts, ideas and words contain Energy.  When Zaadz encourages the propagation of more positive thoughts and words, the Vibrational level increases.   I'm sure that dishonesty is *not* encouraged, writing positive things, even though it may contradict your true feelings/thoughts just to gain more seeds.   But instead of a comment being derogatory, the commenter may find a way to deliver it from a place of honesty and love, without malice.  
–This comment simply my opinion.   Again, I support this initiative, it's creative, fun, and it's intention is from building a positive, loving community.   
Great Luck!!!   =)

Do, or do not. There is no try.

- Yoda

it's a juvenile popularity contest.  it's a classic means of controlling the herd.  it goes against all the reasons I joined zaadz in the first place.  this was supposed to be a place I could be myself and still be accepted, but maybe it never was.  I'll not try to fit in and earn good seeds for proper behavior and avoid bad seeds by playing nice.

it's just too much like in 1984, when the neighbors were made the thought police, so as to control the herd with less expense of energy by those who rule.  Give the people the power to enslave themselves, and to enforce that slavery upon each other.  do you not see how wrong this is?  do you not see the power game in play?  this is not why I came here.

I love the rebellion and the utter clarity of NO popularity contest - doesn't it seem to divide?  And the censorship concerns that have been expressed I believe are TOTALLY valid.  Is it not important to be able to discern for one's own self what is true or not, what resonates or not? 

I know a little bit about some content that has come into question more than once and I sense that this action is in response to that.

That certainly doesn't give a mature respect to the considered spirituality that a lot of Zaadzsters carry here with them. 

So, we will probably be seeing more deletions and, as I was concerned about before but it turned out at the time not to be true, it now appears possible that the powers that be will “delete” those they personally do not like.

Dear Zaadz members, I have a suggestion: If you would like to learn how to defend yourself against fascism, then you might want to read this “defense against the dark arts” manual… It is a book called “The 48 Laws of Power”. Use your preffered search engine and look it up. I hope that you don't fall to the Dark Side of the Force like some people we know… *cough* Zaadz Team *cough*

Here is a small excerpt:

        Law 27: Play on people's need to believe to create a cultlike following

People have an overwhelming desire to believe in something. Become the focal point of such desire by offering them a cause, a new faith to follow. Keep your words vague but full of promise; emphasize enthusiasm over rationality and clear thinking. Give your new disciples rituals to perform, ask them to make sacrifices on your behalf. In the absence of organized religion and grand causes, your new belief system will bring you untold power.

And remember:

War is Peace
Slavery is Freedom
Ignorance is Strength

Conscious Capitalism? Yeah, mmmkay…

Until I read all these blogs I thought I would remain silent about this and give it some more time BUT…
1. I do believe the intent was good and that there might have been some positive influence (as Risto points out)

2. I don't think the positive can outweigh the negatives (for all the reasons that have been given so far … Lucid's points are valid. 

3. I have already seen a few people who I consider most important key people here say they may probably leave … (that was my first sudden feeling … to leave. Then I decided I love zaadz too much and also wanted to give it a try before deciding)

4. Now …  as I read all these (and my friends blogs and comments elswhere) I have decided to join in on making a vote against this “Trust System”. 
Please Dear Zaadz, I hope there is some reconsideration.  
Much Love & Peace & Trust
BeLynn

I can see having a feedback score on “Ebay” although even that isn't always a very good indication of anything except someone being vindictive.  I, for one, do not want that here at Zaadz.  How can we have bad seeds?  What's a bad seed?  I've seen some tortured people here that blog or respond inappropriately.  Sometimes giving them the love they seem so desperate for doesn't seem to do any good.  How do we really know, though?  A kind comment on an inappropriate blog, some words of encouragement, or even a stern, “c'mon, stop that”, just might get them through another day.  Isn't that what Zaadz is about?  Allowing all thought and opening our hearts to one another?

Dear Zaadz Team, I love you for making this medium of enlightenment and friendship possible. Please stop selling out!!! I suggest that you take the time to read the Tao Te Ching, because I feel that within it you might find your lost soul:

The highest good is not to seek to do good,
but to allow yourself to become it.
The ordinary person seeks to do good things,
and finds that they can not do them continually.

The Master does not force virtue on others,
thus she is able to accomplish her task.
The ordinary person who uses force,
will find that they accomplish nothing.

The kind person acts from the heart,
and accomplishes a multitude of things.
The righteous person acts out of pity,
yet leaves many things undone.
The moral person will act out of duty,
and when no one will respond
will roll up his sleeves and uses force.

When the Tao is forgotten, there is righteousness.
When righteousness is forgotten, there is morality.
When morality is forgotten, there is the law.
The law is the husk of faith,
and trust is the beginning of chaos.

Our basic understandings are not from the Tao
because they come from the depths of our misunderstanding.
The master abides in the fruit and not in the husk.
She dwells in the Tao,
and not with the things that hide it.
This is how she increases in wisdom.

Peace : )

This idea is not for me. I want to op out. I really think Zaadz is making changes for the sake of change and it does nothing to make the communinty more inviting. I thought free speech was really valued here. I will think about options and leaving the community is one of them. Katherine

But not being rated is what I love about Zaads…
I don't feel anyone here on Zaads wants to make judgements about anyone.

Why would I give bad seeds? I've never encoutered one…

Friendstacy is right. This is “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others”

Please, Zaads team , think again.

I just got up, and just saw the litany of comments here. I'll be back shortly to respond to each individually, but frankly, I'm a litttle surprised at this shrinking from responsibility. This is empowering you, the community, to determine what you like or don't like. Right now, this power exists–however, it lies wholly in the hands of us at the 'top.'

Lucid? As a 'power that be' (a 'power that is'?) I've played a role in kicking all manner of disrespectful individuals and spammers off the site. The Team just 'disappears' those who come in and harrass others, or who use the site as a grounds for spamming. I believe in this community. I don't think you'll turn it into a popularity contest–and that's CERTAINLY not what this system was meant to become! I'd like to hope that people will use it in the fair and hopeful and inspriation and organizational way in which it was intended… to allow those ideas and concepts the community appreciates to be more easily found, and to empower you to protect the community as a whole against those who don't respect the values we hold.

It's so curious to me what this is bringing up…  but more on that later, I suppose.

Again, though, please recognize that this ability and means to 'censor' you're so concerned about already exists, but it's consolidated in just a few hands. This distributes that responsibility among you. And friendstacy: That note about 'neighbors controlling the herd'?? Goodness. Aren't your neighbors here worthy of more consideration than that?

zaadz admin keeps proving to me that they are here to make money, not to make us happy.  they make lots more money off those who don't question authority, they are easier to control and manipulate and are more likely to buy stuff when they see the ads. 

They don't need us here, they don't want us here.  they certainly don't want anyone questioning their authority.  so now there's a new way of marginalizing those who are different from the rest, to shut us up because what we say might upset someone's nice cozy dreamland.

…and just like when I was a kid on the playground, and just like I said in a recent blog comment regarding the current political situation in the US, I don't want to play a game that's rigged so's I always lose.  how long before someone deletes my comments, my blog?  and can someone please explain to my why I should be afraid of this happening?  oh, that's right, to keep me in line, to force me to play nice.  I'm not that nice, y'all, and I'll not pretend to be because you don't scare me.

Siona,

If it was'nt ment(spelling ??) that way, it certainly was totally mispresented. I still have big doubts.
I take my responsabilty! Yes indeed I do. I would like you to honour that ok? I take it everyday of my live in everything. I take it here.
Like I said, I had one negative, and it was a personal feeling, it was no spam or abusive, and after profound reflection, I deleted.

I strongly hope you reconsider all this.

Siona - how about letting each zaadster to choose whether he wants to use the Trust System or not?
Maybe that way we would accept it and see it's really harmless, or it would be ignored by the community.

I understand the spirit is to keep this a place trust and love and I don't know (and perhaps maybe it would have been of service to provide more details) on why you (Zaadz or Gaiam)feel this is neccessary.  Did something happen?  Have we seen an increase in certain activity that is preferred to be left outside the community?  Perhaps you'd help persuade the rest of us resisting the idea if you gave us a reason more than it is neccessary because we are getting larger.  To me it suggests their is a lack of trust which their may in fact be.  Of course we wouldn't know this because the real detailed reasons have not been shared. 

Even if you do share them, my request would be for us to list those reasons off and then reframe them….maybe have a pop up that gives the important reminder messages every time we log in.  It would  rotate 1 of 20 improtant zaadz values in a one sentence structure in a pop up every time someone logs in so that we are focusing our attention on what we want to expand….instead of focusing our attention on judgement and comparisons.  I'd rather put my energy on the Zaadz values vs. the manipulatory rewards and punishment system.

This doesn't feel right for this wonderful community.  I'd rather see people fall out of line with the values on this community and let love resolve it like it did for me when Siona saved me from getting kicked out.  If someone is being ruthless or falling outside the guidlines, I'd like them to be showered with loving messages while letting it be known their content isn't appreciated.  Our response to that person is really all that is neccessary to know weather or not they are being appreciated.  And should we have to WARN everyone else of their reputation so to speak?  What happened to living in the present moment? 

Of course I don't know all the dynamics and eveything that you guys have to deal with behind the scenes so you may feel that this seed system is your only choice but to me it feels like BIG GOVERMENT which is something I am totally against.  If I understand correctly, I can't even vent in frustration on my own blog without fear of getting a seed reduced.  I can see how this will cause someone to think more in depth about how they are contributing before actuallying hitting the send button but it is a big turn off.  Someone may have the wisest but most unpopular voice on the board but now others will be told they shoudn't take this person seriously.  It's almost like gossip.  At least Ghandi and MLK were still able to use their voice even if it was unpopular.

PS-  There is no system for trust.

What??  so now you're protecting us from terrorists?  did I ask you for such protection?  Oh…. it's for my own good, is it?  I see.

Siona,

First let me say thank you for interacting with us in this discussion.  My first post above did not include an awareness of your latest post. That said, I was one of the people who was dealt with behind the scences once.  In my situation, a lady was upset because she didn't like the e-mail I sent that introduced me.  The truth is, all she had to do was ignore me and I wouldn't have continued to contact her.  There was no need to complain or for a seed system.  If she doesn't give me energy back, then it will diffuse my interactions with her.  It's as simple as that.

And deseeding someone who is spamming doesn't stop them from being able to do it.  Matter of fact, if a spammer has zero seeds because all are deseeding them, what happens to the person who has less seeds for another reason…say because he has an unpopular view?  The perception of him will be that he is a likely spammer and people won't even open up or read his messages at all.  That is not stimulating for new and exciting ideas that often are unpopular from the get go.

Hmmm as Friendstacy eludes too, perhaps this actually IS big government stepping in behind the scenes some how and suggesting Zaadz do something about the free speech here.  Lord knows there is a big push for government to gain more control over the internet.

I have appreciated this generally mature community and open forum, while being open-eyed regarding its 'new age' leanings, occasional personality cults and socio-political-commercial struggles.

Like my Buddhist friend and valued peak-oil commentator, Curmudgeon, my initial gestalt of *integral* response was 'this is not something I care to identify with' and to say so long .

Lucid, above, is being just that. My blog was one of the few places to address fascism on this site, and it certainly did not have Zaadz managers in mind. But the implementation of this good-seed, bad-seed system of policy enforcement starkly brings to mind Umberto Eco's NY Review of Books, 1995 missive regarding the looming specter of 'Ur-Fascism':

“Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action's sake. Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection.”
 <–i.e.: 'I don't like that, I will just mark him as a Bad Seed>
“Thinking is a form of emasculation. Therefore culture is suspect insofar as it is identified with critical attitudes. Distrust of the intellectual world has always been a symptom of Ur-Fascism, from Goering's alleged statement (“When I hear talk of culture I reach for my gun”) to the frequent use of such expressions as “degenerate intellectuals,” “eggheads,” “effete snobs,” “universities are a nest of reds.” The official Fascist intellectuals were mainly engaged in attacking modern culture and the liberal intelligentsia for having betrayed traditional values.”
<–Eco then goes on to show how popular New Age socialism can, oddly enough,
follow these same patterns in socially coercive ways>
Ur-Fascism grows up and seeks for consensus by exploiting and exacerbating the natural fear of difference.

Music Attracts,

That was just my point before : has it become so badly ?
I stand for my responsability and my opion in this.

Can someone still raise over $4 milliion dollars in one day once the competitors deseed his supporters with this so called “Trust System”?  (see short video below)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKZmIzEMUN8

What is happening here on Zaadz could be a micro step in the direction of what Ron Paul suggests is happening with our government.

Check out Ron Paul everyone!  He is one of the few presidential candidates I am considering since he has a strong voting record that actually backs what he says on the podium.  I don't like all his views but I can tell you I TRUST them and to me that is more important than what any other candidate “says” they will do.

He supports net neutrality.

PS- I had to come back on and add this edit..unfortunately I now have a fear that some might disagree with this little post here and deseed me since some may see it as inappropriate for this thread however I and I am sure many others will see it as appropriate and even if they don't, I am going to leave it with the threat of no one liking it as a possibility.  I will not let the threat of deeseeding alter my course! LoL