Values, community, and being your highest you.

All good, Siona. One point I wanted to make: “Treat people as they would like to be treated…” Sometimes a person who prides him/herself on being tough; feels it's okay to be tough on others too.  [Time to blog on this!]

Always a good reminder to touch on these now and again!

Predictable what I would say: Splash it around!!!! Prolly not one in a hundred has read either one. I'd be for merging them, so not have to go to two places. Then splash it around, lots of  “our values” links, I like that idea, yes!!!

I STRONGLY urge continued use of “Terms of Use” words. Doesn't at all grate like Trust System, to me. They are conditions of use, and violation is grounds for booting. Problem is people associating them with the legalese not one in a THOUSAND will read. Prolly fine to post in two spots: along with the Community Guidelines somewhere, and ALSO at the present location, beginning of legalese stuff.

REEEELY looking forward to the year-end report. I hope it includes a part with an entire listing of every new tool, feature, benefit, widget, implemented this year, all the specific details. A looooong list!!!! So people will be catapulted into the appropriate awe for the Dev Team!!!

We think we are cold in Seattle, but the Midwest, no, a million people without power in an ice storm, not warm. What's amazing is that although some people are getting disaster-relief-ed out, lots of people just keep on giving.

Blessings upon all who make this site possible, OM Bastet

Hmmmm, what is a good way to spread the good news of the ToU? It is true that not many would read the ToU.

This following idea is a little over the top, but hey, it could develop into something… who knows…

Ok, what about allowing members who want to provide a link to the ToU in their profile?

It will not be a compulsory thing, but those who wish to have a link in their profile of the ToU can have an option to have it so. That way, it shows that that member advocates the ToU.

People may ignore what is being expressed by Zaadz staff, but when profile after profile has a LINK… something different… in their profile, people will become curious. Make the look sassy too… or zaadzy, even. lol

The name ToU is a little sterile in my eyes.

Out of on top of my head, what about… Mutual Terms of Understanding (MTU)? Bit long winded but that is what I came out with :P

If I come up with any Eureka moments on the topic, I will make sure to add it here. ;)

OOOH, I adore the idea, Shinari, of the optional link in our profiles. We don't even need a special thingy, we can do that now. I actually recently posted the Terms and the Guidelines as a blog entry, but this is far more visible. Brilliant idea!!!!!!!

(And a snazzy button would be nice, of course, if any dev person has time or maybe a volunteer could create it???? That way everyone would be displaying the same graphic link.)

Blessings, OM Bastet

Wonderful post, Siona, and terrific idea about making these mission-critical terms more visible to all.

If one could post a link on a Profile, even better.  These are so important, and if neglected can lead to serious degradation of the sanctity and quality of the site.

Yes, Zaadz is FREE, but there are always responsibilities that come with FREE, and terms of use outline the rules of the game.

And it will be super to have an update such as you propose… And perhaps make this a bi-annual (twice a year?) tradition.

Yes, ditto to everyone. Just great to read this  -  we need to be reminded of these wonderful words even if we did actually read them when we began here! (I have to admit that I didn't, at least not word for word. I have now).

ditto to this: Ok, what about allowing members who want to provide a link to the ToU in their profile?

I'd actually like a way to highlight the ToU's on my pod as they are very much in line with the Diving Deeper 'commenting' guidelines.

I feel that these ToU's are so important in an online environment – I have read studies of  people 'interacting' virtually - and it's quite astonishing – people behaving in ways they would never in other situations. There have been cases of businesses having to shut down their inter/tranet systems because of interactions getting totally out of hand.

We are doing so well here on z/Gaia :-)

Thanks again dear Siona,

Sandra

Siona, you outmarked humaly ideals concisely and effectively. indeed, i am obliged to zaadz for creating such a wonderful community on net. may god bless all those who undertake activities and conscious to serve humanity.
Hey i love the golden rules and feels need to be more foccussed frequently and exposed within zaadz community itself rather than this alone exposure. all is wonderful laid by you Siona.
But meanwhile i am upset and very upset with you n ur team cuz you have induce fees charges in retaining a valuable member of zaadz. siona, this is just not a good idea and again mixture of capitalism in effort of changing the world. infact here are people from poor countries too who cannot afford fees to retain their membership. at instance for me also it is problem. i am very much praisable to other ideals and acknowledge them with my heart but please who wish to become a ideal member please cripple this fees charges, cuz i wish to become a ideal member but i am very sorry to afford fees. although i will abide all other terms n conditions honestly. i hope you will muse over it and cancel this system of fees. i would feel honour if i could be able to work for humanity n zaadz n wish to become a true n honest zaadzsters. Thanks a lot indeed for posting these ideals.
With blessings, loves, and wishes !
owais

In a nut shell, I like this!  It tells us what zaadz is all about.

Too true, 1Vector3, that we can add the links now! Haha… didn't even think of that. When I was talking above I thought of profiles having the same pretty  graphic link, not on their About Me section, but maybe on one of the side panels?

Those who choose to have the graphic link activated receive a free tour of heaven in a flying pig! Woo hoo! I'm in! :D

The least amount of censorship possible….

Where does the term “The Highest You” come from?

I second Fee's comment here.  It is very important to me that Zaadz remains censorship free.  When you censor, you tell someone their ideas, thoughts, comments, words, etc. are invalid.  I love being able to freely express myself here and more importantly, I love reading everyone's thoughts and ideas no matter how wacky some of them seem to me because aren't we all perfect expressions of God?

The Highest You comes from the subject written above.  It is our own integrity and our own reasoning.  It is infinity or what you want it to be Fee.

I agree with the value and terms and conditions and like the idea that it is easily accessible to new friends and a reminder to the group to help keep the game as intended.  Great games have rules, barriers, etc.to help with your mission.

Hi Everyone,

Love you ideas!  Shinari, that idea of putting the link on your profile is a wonderful idea.  Thanks.

As you know, we're committed to creating a unique place on the web. A place that's committed to inspiring and empowering people to live at their highest potential.

If we are going to be the change we wish to see in the world then we have to live that change right here on Zaadz. 

It all sounds fine, I was just wondering if that phrase “being your highest you” comes from somewhere else.

being your highest you is being your truest you.

Yes……I was pretty sure it didn't mean to be the least you can be…..

I got the meaning……I was just wondering if the phrase had some sort of origin or what it's source was.

For me, the definition of being 'your highest you' is when you can take the lower road because it's easiest but instead, make a bigger effort to take the higher road knowing it to be the right road. 

Little things like not gossiping or passing on a story that has negligable truths, giving advice when it was not asked for, even taking a third or fourth drink when you're already buzzed enough … and bigger things that being a care giver to someone even though your life takes a backseat for awhile … stuff like that. 

Being your highest self requires minute to minute decision making and choices which serve to make your time on this earth better for everyone, not JUST self.

Namaste to you all! When I first signed up for Zaadz, which is when I first read the Terms of Use, and Guidelines…funny thing, I thought I was signing up to post on a message board, until I got to the part about naming my blog- ha! and then I was admittedly intimidated by the “how do you intend to change the world?” (in so many words)- huh? I thought, “That's lofty! What other website asks you that question?” They're going to review my info to see if I meet their standards?” I realized immediately upon being accepted on Zaadz the ingeniousness of this- aside from the usual legal jargon found in your standard terms of service and site guidelines which all if not most sites claim to uphold and enforce, Zaadz expects you to have a conscience, to follow the Golden Rule, encourages you to think of others, think outside the box, think of the limitless possibilities for ourselves and the world, the bigger picture. Brilliant! And indeed, what other website expects that? There is so much crap on the internet- opportunists wishing to exploit, scam, undermine, spew hatred, and influence your thinking in negative ways- they can get their forum most anywhere else on the net. But the expectations and requirements of Zaadz ingeniously weeds that crap out, and moreover, there is an overall spirit of the site, and of the folks here that inspires and encourages us all to be at our best. With as many members (over 125,577 last time I checked) all over the world as there are on Zaadz, with the common goal of positive change in the world- that is an immensely influential collective consciousness in the world, and then when you connect that with the theory of six degrees of separation*, and I'm not a mathematician by any means, but that multiplies the influence by the people who are not on Zaadz that come in contact with Zaadzsters, the businesses and organizations that have links to Zaadz and the folks that work within those businesses and organizations and the people they come in contact with, and so on, and so on- does anyone doubt the potential here?

*Six degrees of separation refers to the idea that, if a person is one “step” away from each person he or she knows and two “steps” away from each person who is known by one of the people he or she knows, then everyone is no more than six “steps” away from each person on Earth. Several studies, such as Milgram's small world experiment, have been conducted to empirically measure this connectedness. While the exact number of links between people differs depending on the population measured, it is generally found to be relatively small. (from Wikipedia)

The snazzy button will attract attention,curiosity will create the click,and the rules to play will be right there to remind us that we have a great community that wants the best in each of us to share that,spread it all over,richly covering and reflecting who we are to the world looking in on us……

Si, va bene!

Being reminded of what my highest self subscribed to in the first place helps my lowest self not do naughty forgetful knee-jerk things!

The button to the link could say just 'are you high today?'… :)

And yes, the wording is LOVELY in the ZCU…

If you wanna get more technical, Good to Great by Jim Collins does a FINE job at where mission and vision are to be separated…

love and kisses

The ToU are simply words to live by in everything that we do.  Thank you Zaadz Team for being who you are, and presencing such wonderful values.

I love your linking idea Shinari.  Staying with Terms of Use (ToU) is a good idea.  It reminds me of the word Term, blended with you. 

What a wonderful world here at Zaadz!  So many other web communities have a take it or leave it attitude, where here… it feels like home.

Quiche,   thanks for sharing your story! 

~ to our sharing of our highest selves

Thank you Mark! I've learned and continue to learn from the best- you and all the folks here on Zaadz (:

For the terms of use, we could have a tickbox on each item or even more fun actaully,

instead of ticking IAgree or IDon'tAgree actually have them type in “I agree” in each box.  for one thing, this would be quite novel on the web and people would get that we are serios.
Secondly,
ABut the Values.
I hope we're all just having unison brain farts here!  “Values?!”  That's like saying “Beliefs” – I mean values are the endpoint beliefs of a long procedure of judgement – or, worse, what we've been indoctrinated to “value”.  We can and do SAy exactly what we mean, no need to gloss over it with “and our values.” 

Maybe I should back off here.
I get it.  I suggest that zaadz is an evolution where truly
reverencee, compasion and growth are real, not projected/wanted values.
It's what we DO and what we ARE.
Start with that.  I like it.

I rather like the idea of having an unobtrusive yet simple way to access site guidelines on any page I happen to be visiting.  Front pages of profiles and first pages of pods or any other presenting page would be great.  And out of the way for those preferring not to deal. 

In continuation of previous lengthy discussions about the objective application of these points listed in the Terms of Use or even the snapshot type understanding of each guest here of said terms is still in question with many.  But, that is just how it works.  As soon as I read the bit about being entirely oneself…I felt the number of times that being oneself has conflicted with another being themselves.  And the group norm wishing to govern that….and another group NOT to govern it. 

And in being all of myself.  I wonder did all zaadz members get asked to contribute here.  And if my reply will really do anything but be a means to make me feel as I have been heard.  Just a thought.  :)

 a newcomer here at zaadz, thanks for the reminder & the opportunity to grow into those higher aspects with each word, breath etc.  …a regular reminder of the ToU would be my vote.

quiche, thanks for your story, I am right now in the midst of a health challenge that has brought me to the depths of despair…knowing on some deep level connecting, community, love were/are all keys to bringing me out of the dark abyss….

after only 2 days, i am so grateful for zaadz, i do believe it has a higher impetus to unhook me from the hellish drama…

much love, light, good vibes, sweet dreamin'

I appreciate the attempt to have a certain quality of discourse on Zaadz and in attracting that, attracting people of a certain bend of mind. 

Is Zaadz a unique place on the web?  I think so, without question.  I know of no other site exactly like this place.

Are we inspired and empowered here to live at our highest potential?  I can only answer for myself.  I have been both inspired and empowered, I have expanded my perceptions in useful ways by being here and by my own efforts - through the cultivation of a pod and through my responses to, or encouragement of, others, I certainly attempt to do that for other members here.  Yet, how does one really define what such an effort looks like?  Could not two separate individuals in their attempts to do what I have just said, that I have done and try to do, approach it uniquely because of different life experiences and philosophies?

Here is where it gets difficult to define whether someone lives up to the Terms of Use agreement.  I don't think it is possible to arrive at a black and white answer - [a] this is living up to it and [b] this is not - though I do know some here think that possible to define (for themselves perhaps).  It is entirely subjective, dependent upon who is doing the judging.  How can it be otherwise?

Are we required to produce a stress free environment for all who enter in the world of Zaadz?  Wow, I know personally how many times my personal good intentions have been misinterpreted and that is part of what Elisa was trying to say, I believe.  Can I not cause stress in another member simply because I could not foresee something unique to them that would cause them be be stressed? 

Unrelated example - Just yesterday, I visited the eye dr.  My last visit there is a vivid memory of my last trip to the city with my dying FIL who had an appt with this same dr - he and I traveled the 2 hrs alone and were together in that same dr's office.  I have been mostly without sadness or grief at his passing because it was so intentional, so beautiful and so peaceful.  Yet, I was blindsided by the effect my new visit there, by myself this time, would have on me.  Could it not be possible for me to upset and stress another member without expecting to, because there is some intimate detail I could not possibly know?

Many of us here are “energy aware” and do attempt to radiate that energy in positive ways but others may come here, specifically because we are here and they need that energy.  In their darkness, need and confusion … well, what might happen?  There are all kinds of alternate possibilities, that those of us who do energy work here can not be held directly responsible for but, may perform - a real service of “giving” by our interaction with the other person.

Here are some definitions for the behavior we are expected to show here -

[1] reverence - a complex mental state involving beliefs and feelings and values and dispositions to act in certain ways - ie awe and respect and often love; veneration

[2] compassion - a deep awareness of and sympathy for another's suffering (I would submit that it is possible for many people to not have a clue as to whether another is suffering - to have awareness and disregard and even cruelty towards is of course abominable but how to “prove” that is the case?)

[3] respect - to feel or show deferential regard for; esteem - to avoid violation of or interference with

Expressly prohibited is criticism (subjective at times), while we are to explore different perspectives and accept a challenging opinion (hum - how to tell criticism from a challenging opinion, could depend on my emotional state and personal investment in an idea at the particular time it occurs).

As this has gotten long - I'll save the community guidelines for later.  I would just add that I do try to act at Zaadz, and throughout my life in general, much within the spirit of what I think these concepts are trying to say.  I'm only pointing out the difficulty of defining and therefore enforcing them.  Difficult …subjective …allowing growth through exposure to a variety of opinions and experiences can be difficult to accomplish without any stress.

How to make it happen in a way that encourages the greatest number of members to reach a higher expression of their potential?  No answers from me, I apologize, seems all I'm good for in this discussion is providing some ideas to contemplate.

Deb has described more poetically what I was also trying to do in my first post here: that each person has a different standard; and our standards can keep changing as well.

However, I think that when we see movement along a person's discussion; we can see that each is trying to move to a higher ground. e.g. if someone says something that does NOT seem to me to be from their truest self- it would first behoove me to question them about it— not react, which is not right for MY truest self, but ask for clarification —- and then if I see that the other moves into anger, or attack, I guess we could call that a response not acceptable according to the ToU?  [Hey, that can rhyme with Tao!!!!] I think, though, that others in a pod, or discussion can jump in too, to see if the situation can be clarified. I am sure the team doesn't mean to remove members till there have been many provocations, and the person is really not getting or contributing to growth.

If someone is disturbed, there are healers here who can help in many ways; and it may be up to each of us to help to bring the other out of anger; but only if the other seems to ask for it.

But yes, as I write, I see the difficulties of knowing whether another is coming from their higher self. Light calls out to light.

Hello Everyone.
    I hope that you guys out there are doing good.  I am glad that I  belong to Zaadz.  It's a warm place to be at.   We have to go to our higher self.  I meditate and do yoga and I stay in tune with the hihgher one.  Happy Holidays to everyone,

Good Evening everyone…..

You know……..the “Terms of Use”……..there's a lot of MEANINGFUL “fine print” in this world……..when you get a credit card…….when you apply for a mortgage……when you buy an investment……yeah, the fine print……the “terms”, whatever you want to call it……hey, that's important!!

And I'm not saying that the Zaadz “ToU” is “unimportant”…….but so many times…..when you download “Adobe”…..who actually READS the fine print……we all just click “I Accept” and we move on, right?

The question isn't really “What are the terms of use here?” or “How do we best create a terms of use?”

No, the ultimate, MEANINGFUL part of it ends up being……..”What are you going to DO about it?”

See, it's always in the enforcement so to speak. The real question is “If someone “violates” the terms of use………and come on now…..that TOO is subjective!……it's all in the APPLICATION of the rules……the law……the INTERPRETATION of it…….that's what really matters….

The problems don't come in when you write it, the problems come in when you APPLY it……

Everyone wants to “be the best them” or whatever………that's not the issue. The issue is “WHAT would ZAADZ and the administrators DO…..if THEY determined that someone violated whatever rule it is?”

That's why I just say “The least amount of censorship possible”. Becuase ulitmately it all boils down to “How MUCH freedom…..how MUCH freedom of speech WILL you tolerate and where is the LINE?”

Until the line is reached and breached……….well, nothing else matters.

And just for clarification, I wasn't really looking for a DEFINITION of “Being the highest You”. That's pretty much self explanitory. What I was looking for was the ORIGINS of that phrase…….who first coined it? etc……

Thanks

jt

Hey Siona,
I am happy with being myself, I like to share my ideas with others. I like to help people acheive and I hope if anyone needs help they can ask me, also I love Zaadz. It really is better than myspace. It has a purpose, which I really like. Change the World!!!!
Oh and yes I am keeping warm. Hope you are too!

I agree also, aiyoya_88.

And it is true what they say, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

Ignorance to these rules is no excuse.  Even I must closely monitor myself. 

In a candid, but mentoring conversation with 1Vector3 (she was mentoring me), it bacame even clearer to me, how I could break the rules by blurring the lines, which are meant to distinguish good principles from undesirable conduct, and that creating a positive presence on Zaadz along with other community members means looking closely at every gesture I manifest.

I once told 1Vector3  that I'd be sad to make a mistake and loose my connection with the wonderful people of Zaadz, but even more dissapointed in myself, if my actions reflected poor judgement through an indiscretion no matter how eager, zealous or virtuous my desire and intent are to meaningful connect. There is a right way and a wrong way to share! I love and admire 1Vector3  for taking the time to explain this to me, and I love and admire the Zaadz team for taking the initiative to reitterate these ideas in order to safe guard are continuued interaction from a proactive stance.

Proactivity is sure an act of love and kindness, because this shows you are committed to me as an individual - an intrinsic value obvious to my observation.

So, in reflection, I must clean house, and make sure my desire to connect stays in context to the harmonious intent upon which this community was created.

I love my fellow Zaadzsters: Sionna, Kelly, Michael, Chaos, Matthew, Mark, Jackson, including The Entire Zaadz Team, et cetera, et cetera

If my actions ever reflected over-zealous, questionable  eagerness, I ask forgiveness and offer my pledge to not repeat an indiscretion.

In that spirit, I'd like to share:

Intrinsic Value of A Zaadz-Inspired Community Posted on Dec 10th, 2007 by Bryan

Inspiration motivates everything on all levels of awareness, and although inspiration comes in different forms defined by the experiences we create, it is truly the tie that binds. Inspiration is the single currency that is honored at all check-out points, where we go to inspire and be inspired. At this point of exchange there are no bargain basements, coupons, or shortcuts. The intrinsic value we perceive in the interaction is what we invest and reap, and as we do more of it, the effects of inspiration our more readily self-realized and beneficial.

Then we branch out more, take chances, and investigate other forms of expression to see how we improve in our ability to recognize inspiration in those many forms. This is important, because inspiration is presented through the uniqueness of other human beings seeking the same!
 
The outcome is unanimous! The rewards inevitable! We get to connect with one another, the experiences are meaningful, and interacting gets easier, not to mention healing through friendships developed and communities cultivated along the way.

Yes, we get what we put into it, and balance this kind of interaction with all the others in our life. In time what matters becomes obvious, and then there is no such thing as “…this is better than that,” but “…that is different or unique,” or “..this is what resonates with me in the moment.”

Intrinsic value is the motivation for discovering how inspiration can be experienced and shared through infinite means. Each of us partakes in a community, which helps in that realization!

As soon as I arrived at Zaadz, I saw a growing community that I needed to connect with and learn from. While seeking, I discovered dynamic personalities through the simple convention of picking up the phone and saying, “Hello, I'm Bryan and I am interested in what you do!” Fortunately, I have only just begun, because as I continue seeking  I find a bountiful plethora of inspiration through people to integrate and share.

 We all are participants, mentors, teachers and messengers, and Zaadz makes it easy to stay connected without picking up the phone, but still I am glad to make the time.

May you find that the information you acquire be truly worth the time invested in the seeking. 

Your Brotha,

B.

P.S. If I may, I'd like to blog this response in my own private Blog to share my realizations with others who may not come across this exchange in thought here at the Zaadz team pod

I loved your response Bryan: creating a positive presence on Zaadz along with other community members means looking closely at every gesture I manifest.

Yes – beautifully expressed. I believe in taking a look at all my thoughts, behaviours, automatic reactions – and making myself available to others to help me see  my 'blind spots'.

According to Bruce Lipton, who wrote the Biology of Belief :

” the subconscious runs our biology from 95-99% of the day, Since we are generally unaware of our subconscious belief (hence the concept of “unconscious” processing), we rarely see that our own behavior is the sabotaging element we must face.”

I'm not sure, Fee, that Everyone wants to “be the best them.”

I know I think I do, but I have seen that so much of my behaviour is automatic and “programmed”  -  how do I know my idea of my 'best self' is not simply a self-serving one, or actually an identity that my parents imprinted upon me that has nothing to do with my authentic being? For me, this is why the emphasis on awareness, on reading such things as the ToU's and Community Guidelines to remind me to keep looking.

I believe it is possible to uncover our subconscious beliefs, but it does take intention and commitment and a lot of love (and courage).  Actually I love Lipton's description of the body as a community of cells - just as zaadz/gaia is a community of people and the health of the body, of the community does depend upon each cell working towards harmony in the whole:

“Each cell is a living individual, a sentient being that has its own life and functions but interacts with other cells in the nature of a community. If I could reduce you to the size of a cell and drop you inside your own body, you would see a very busy metropolis of trillions of individuals living within one skin. This becomes relevant when we understand that health is when there is harmony in the community and dis-ease is when there is a disharmony that tends to fracture the community relationships. So, number one, we are a community.”

All we can do is keep reminding each other, ourselves. I have no concern about the ToU's being enforced 'incorrectly' –  it doesn't really seem to be the issue (imo). I encourage anything that supports me to look deeper.

We are here, together, and whatever happens here I take to be a mirror of what is happening in me. If I look there first, and take care of 'business' within, then all else follows, in my experience.

Love,
Sandra

The high standard in conduct at Zaadz is an admirable quality rarely found in online communities. And it cannot be accomplished by a single individual. Thank you all who have made a commitment to make a difference. It makes login into Zaadz a pleasure.

Shanti, indeed.

As I'd realized in the beginning, this discussion touched a point of thought that I wanted to blog about…and did. Sanctuary or womb; natural or cultivated garden: what is Zaadz?
Now as I post the link  here, I wonder : is it good or bad form to do so? There can be enough arguments on both sides.
What MADE ME DO this? EAch capitalized word opens up a portal - are we doing things or are they being done through us? Who am I? These questions are not rhetorical or mystical. They are integral to the term : “highest you.”


“Terms of Use” is not a term that speaks to the “highest I.”It speaks to the

duality that is ego, the I vs. you, the good vs bad; desirable vs undesirable. So this

statement, that seems to disagree with the Team's intent in words, is actually

agreeing with it in its intent.

Fee, you are a case in point for me. Your thoughts are as mine are going. And this

surprised me, because there are many things you have written, which have not

resonated with me; but have actually rubbed me the wrong way. Does this mean,

Team, that I should have questioned Fee about what he did or said; disapproved;

disliked? Sometimes I am sure I did; or rather, that I saw those thoughts flowing

through me. They flowed in and then out; as there was nothing within that wanted to

hold on to them. When we flow as a river, we don't allow the weeds of such thoughts

to take root. We allow them to join in the fun of the flow. And then one day, there

comes a meeting of minds, as it has here, and the joy is undescribable.

'Terms of Use' will not change the world. It will take the community the way of the

 watcher of other people; whereas as the ones above suggest, we have to watch

ourselves.  A better term to describe how to change the world, is My Intent. We could each write our intent - it could show up in our profile as a reminder to ourselves. Some of us have done it through our titles and status messages. But the how tos can be decided later.

It is so easy to send seeds of love to those who agree with us, praise us, love us,

like us. Can we do the same to those who disagree, disengage, ignore, or seem to hate

us.
Sandra, you ask how we can be sure if we are working from our highest self. [I'm

paraphrasing, I think]. Does anything else rule the universe but the highest self?

Can we really doubt it?
I invite anyone who is interested to read a meditative piece I had written about

how to take disharmony in our lives. The Expanding Lake
Namaste.

I  hope I can keep this short. :)

Elisa, no one “asked us to contribute” here. We are all volunteers. :) We probably all have subscribed to a Notification of the Team Blog, so we can know what's going on and choose to comment if we wish.

Bryan, you rock. You are open and growing and a waycool awesome dude.

Several: Yes, the words are one thing, and how it all gets implemented is of even greater interest and FAR greater complexity. But I don't see the words as unimportant.

Sandra, your wisdom glows.

I forget who. Meenakshi?: With regard to specifying Terms of Use: Someone who creates and holds a space and maintains it and invites people in has, IMO, the right and indeed the obligation to specify what is or is not acceptable behavior within their space. It might be USED by some, but it BELONGS to those who create and maintain it. Just the way you won't allow someone to beat up someone in your home.

It is true that from the perspective of a really growing person, everything is fodder for growth, even behavior that most people would regard as violating the Terms of Use, yet we can choose what we want to do, and we can choose what we want to be around, and we can, as I just suggested, choose what we will accept or reject/eject from our space. This does not involve judgment; it involves preference. The Zaadz creators and maintainers get to express their preferences for the kind of behavior they want in their space, and we agree to that or not, because we are the guests here. (Royally entertained, in every sense of the word!!!) See what I am getting at?

OK, thass my 2 cents for today.

Blessings and gratitude to all who have shared their perspectives here. I'm gonna nominate this thread to Collective Wisdom: The Hall of Fame for Threads pod! Y'll come over and vote for it!!!!

OM Bastet

I like the “be really authentic you, yes, really” bit…
and when it is wombed in the “do unto others…” compassion (passion with) then it really works.

I suppose what Siona is also saying is
“be the 'new' unlimited, easefully joyful truth you already know (and wish to see)” without blinding oneself to those who aren't in that joyful, easeful space;
do this to be safe - be “realistic” about where the uneaseful are both from an “avoiding/pre-empting danger” point of view, and also because it is better to resonate “upwards” surrounding oneself with those one wishes to be like.

And yet, everything “out there” is a mirror of what is “in here,” so there is really no choice where to begin for any of us!

As for staying warm ….. Huh????!!!!!
(I'm desperately (!) trying to find a joyful place of inner warmth, so that I may with ease be transported to a land of green warm sunny delights with fresh vibrant fruits and dancing ecstatic people - my body finds it difficult to affirm such delights during 6 months of snow and ice and discomfort outside!!!! - Some people just love the cold - not me!)

Warm wishes and hugs and blessings to all

John O

sandra,

i particularly liked your reference re: lipton and how we/ our bodies community are all interconnected and when one is out of balance, the rest is as well…it has been a mirror for my own life circumstances when i became out of balance, my community was no where to be found….thus the downward spiral continued…looking to change that with a sense of community, connection, support…of course the application is key…wonderful to talk about such things, but one must experience it as well.
many blessings,
kimbelry

As for me:
- I think the legal thing is good.
- the “yoga , meditation and temple” is paradoxical. I don't know about you, but when I go into these places…I just shut up - I know a lot of people can't though! This cannot be a good image for me…Yoga class, shrines and the like are places where my mind gets quiet. That's not what Zaadz is about! Zaadz is about sharing….It's more like the dinner after the mass, or the prasad eating and relaxing after the Puja!
- rules implying “Hihger Self” and other things is really very confusing. Actually I think it's total crap! 
Keep the guidelines clear: this is accepted…this is not! Higher Self! If someone holds against me that I'm not speaking from my higher Self…what can I say…what does he say!!!!
Again: This place is not a shrine. If you want to make as if it was one…Then some Christ like figure may   come and get angry at all those shopkeepers…inside the temple!!LOL
This is a spiritual cafeteria!!!
Be well,
Patrick

“Be yourself”: This injunction is so subjective…There are many selves, many levels of selfhood!
“treat others as you would like to be treated”: again, this is so subjective.
Don't criticize: I mean this cannot be!
These guidelines are definitely fostering one way of beeing! They really seem to me like a tyranny of “be nice, be good”.
I'm sorry to say but this sounds so appaling to me.
So appart from criticizing what do I suggest?I had a pod, which is quite dead now, but here were it's rules:
“The rules are:
It is not asked to “speak from one's higher Self”, and conflict is allowed. You may talk from your “lower self”, but the rule is:

- If you talked from your lower self, please recgonize it, go through it, beyond conflict and let us go on.”
That is what I'm suggesting.
I think the “moral” and well wishing rules should be dropped and replaced by clear behavioural rules.
That's it.
Be well,
Patrick
- 

Alright…….maybe I'll be the first to bring this up……..and my search of Bruce Lipton found me back at this same spot……a lot of this stuff….the language…..the people…….it's kind of coming together for me…….integral……Cohen…..”Your higher you”….

I'll say it (raising my hand)….

I see Scientology

Patrick -
- If you talked from your lower self, please recgonize it, go through it, beyond conflict and let us go on.

On the one hand I agree with you, and I wonder how you see this happening - I mean if someone talks from their lower self and recognizes it, then why bother? I mean why bother talking from your lower self if you know when you are doing it? —

ok so yes, I act automatically and reactively – and I 'know' that I'm doing it, usually after the fact. When I know I'm doing it during the fact, I 'seem' not to be able to do anything different. I'm on 'automatic', watching.

 So far, in my experience, another situation will arise that triggers that same reaction until I've fully taken responsibility in the moment of acting, and when I in that moment, decide to do something else.

We need spaces and people to support this kind of process. Not a dumbing down niceness.

Of course stuff is going to 'come up' here, it already has, everywhere. It's part of the process. And if there was no 'intention', no 'mission', no community guidelines which drew us here in the first place, do you think we would resolve and move through these situations in the way we have? In the way we are doing now?

Perhaps the pod which expressely allowed conflict did not survive because there is not that much juice for simply bashing cushions? I totally agree that conflict should not be 'avoided at all costs' -  and I am also certain that anywhere I step here, there is a possibility to be triggered and to take a look at my stuff. That' part is up to me - and there a so many visible  'mediators' and support people here already that if I need it I know that I can ask for it.

Personally  I don't read these guidelines as encouraging “niceness” (or Scientology, Fee… sorry. Maybe a scientologist here can answer your question). I simply take them as a reminder to keep looking, not to suppress or repress, but to keep bringing awareness to what I do, think, say, feel.

Should I 'change' any of this? Myself? How I am?  In my experience I can't simply 'change' (eg when I'm angry or upset or triggered or dumping my stuff on another person) but I can keep bringing awareness. That is all I have, I believe: the ability to choose where I place my awareness. The more I do this, the more 'things' seem to change, including my 'unconscious' behaviour.

And, perhaps none of this is within my power –  as per the cell image - does a single cell have any 'power' in my body to shift the status quo? To actually decide to do so?  Do I, as part of a larger organism? I don't know.

Do I truly know when I am beyond conflict, do I truly know that I can 'recognize' it when I am from my lower self?

I'm not sure we 'know' anything. This is the place I'm willing to look at, this is what I hear when I read the guidelines — to let go of what I think I know, to be willing to stand here vulnerable, unsure, uncertain, open.  Maybe it's not expressly written but it is what I hear.

I expect everyone 'hears' (i.e. reads) what they want to - whatever fits their personal world view and belief system.. and we have each other to keep reminding us that perhaps there is also another way - not that any way is 'better', but simply to be willing to let go of being right.

Love,
Sandra

Meenakashi: The Platinum Rule says “Treat others as they would like to be treated.” It's my personal favorite, too, even if it does take a little more effort to practice. Thank you for that reminder.

Om Bastet: Thank you as always; good suggestions all. :)

(That note about the rights and obligations of those who “create and hold a space” is touched me, too—especially the obligation part. We extended a certain invitation, and in the same way that it would be unfair and obnoxious to invite people to a dinner party and then let them know, once they show up, that not only will there be no food there but it's going to be a camping trip, it's unfair to those who come expecting the spirit mentioned in the invitation to be upheld if we get wishy-washy on our intentions or values.)

Owais: I'm SURE that as soon as we offer the contributing member / ads-free option, there'll be a shake-up; so one wants to see differentiation or segregation between those who (can afford to) pay and those who don't. We're not going to limit the free community and we'll do as much as possible to make those who want to support an ad-free site feel as though their money is worth it while ensuring that those who can't or don't want to join at that level are still essential members. But this is likely a conversation that'll have to happen again.

Quiche: THANK YOU! Gah. It's posts like this that make me so, so grateful for this community and so, so glad that we're able to offer this space. I hear everyone above who wrote about censorship and the importance of remaining open, but, on top of that, I do feel it's important to remember the values of kindness and compassion—and to make sure this space is both a haven for those who need it and a place where those who in transition (and just beginning to glimpse what it means to live with a positive intention) can find support. Thank you again. :)

Sanjuro: Jim Collins is amazing. I just found out I just moved to the town he calls home. Maybe we can convince him to join…

debyemm: To my mind, opening these questions and continuing to encourage awareness of the sheer challenge of continuing to embrace or embody those values is a big part of what they mean. By questioning you're LIVING them… don't you think?

 Bryan: Beautiful.

Fee and Sandra: Part of what I love about this community is that it forces (or pushes or encourages) me to come from a place of integrity, and to be my highest me, even when doing that is scary and painful. I have to be vulnerable. I have to be authentic. I have to be honest. Why? Because this community is, and, as a result, because so many people here are so sensitive to when things are 'off.' As Shinari said, what's been grown here can't possibly be the result of one person. So again… thank you all.

Also… Fee and Patrick or anyone who doesn't resonate with this space… please remember that you can always go create your own. No one's forcing you to stay! It's a (pretty much ;) free internet and there's plenty of other communities and forums to join. In the same way that it would be absurd of me to join a book group and then complain that I can't read my slam poetry there, or to join a cycling club and wonder why they get upset at my motorcycle, it doesn't make sense to join this community (with our explicitly stated values and intentions) and then protest that we don't allow certain behaviors.

And wait. You didn't KNOW that Tom Cruise was behind all this? ;)

Well……quite interesting…..

Yes, I would say that this is a great community. There are how many thousands of members? But a relatively small percentage of them do a relatively large percentage of the posting. That's perfectly normal……..not unusual at all.

I don't know, sometimes some stuff seems obvious to me. We should have integrity, we should be authentic, honest……..to that I would say…….well, yeah, of course! Not that everyone lives like that. I don't know, maybe in the 50s it was all just called “common decency”.

Ah but the second part Siona……….it's very subtle…….but come on…….it was a very delicate, almost pretty way of saying “hey, if you don't like it take a walk buddy!”………who says this “space” doesn't “resonate with us”? Is healthy skepticism and the raisng of legitimate questions now a sign that we “just don't connect” and that maybe…..we could go “create our own space”……..(sweet talk for “hey, you could just leave.”)……..”There are plenty of other communities and forums to join”………sweet talk for “why don't you go somewhere else?”…..and are we now being compared to “slam poetry” and the loud and intrusive motorcycle disturbing the delicate flower bicycle?

Now your Tom Cruise line was quite funny! I dig it………ANY Tom Cruise humor is funny actually……but come on Siona……I'm just as much a “free thinker” as anyone. That doesn't mean that MY angle of free thinking has to JIBE with yours……..or that it would be preferable that I march a little more in tune or don't rock the boat or whatever phrase we could use…….in fact, it concerns be just a bit that the response you seemed to give the two of us…….and please, correct me if I'm wrong!…….as gentle, and sweet, and delicate as it was worded…….it concerns me that there is an element of “well perhaps you're not fitting in and need to consider leaving.”. That hit me kind of weird.

Fee, buddy…

You know there are rules. The market has rules. You play by those rules yes? Course you do.
 
You have expectations when someone visits your house? Yes course you do?

This is not your house. It is not my house, its Zaadz house. Take your shoes off, and be your highest self. Is that complicated? Is it not decent?

Freedom of speech is a responsibility, not an excuse. Should there be no boundaries? How do we maintain decency and understanding without boundaries? How do we aspire to be more grounded and engaged when there is no discipline? How do we learn when the road does not have an edge? Are we to follow your road with no edge?

What are you talking about? Are you trying to “check” me, or limit me? Where does this come from and what exactly am I doing that you don't approve of?

I actually find this cool. I'm getting a bit checked the moment I bring up the word……

Scientology……..

Ah, I just took a peek Sanjuro and got a little more perspective………..

That's nice…….. glad to help…….. :)

Oh, you did.

Featuring the TOU more prominently tends to dovetail in nicely with what the community of Zaadz offers in terms of human spiritual (r)evolution.  It's clear (as witnessed by all of the bickering that goes on) that there are very few on Zaadz who understand the higher purpose of relationship, (in this case those interactions we have on Zaadz are to be defined as such).  The purpose of which I speak is for the growth and refinement of the “self” in order that the “Self” may ultimately come forth into experience and Oneness be known and lived. 

While the TOU is an external regulator, it nevertheless serves as a guideline, and a necessary one for immature ego's that may be seeking (whether consciously or unconsciously), little more than a podium for self-aggrandizement.

When one understands that lasting spiritual development requires introspection, followed by modification of beliefs, judgements and emotional pain body issues.. it becomes clear that we here on Zaadz are on extremely fertile ground.  We are going to be triggered.. because growth is what this is about.  But rule number one is the old addage that if you're pointing a finger at someone else there are three more pointing right back at you. 

So the first “rule” (which really isn't a rule at all but a guideline for spiritual living), is to look within at the self first.  If somone triggers you, if you're angry, hurt or just feeling indignant, understand that ego wants to blame “other” because it's the nature of ego to do so, and instead turn and look within.  If every person who is on this site understood that inner work is the source of true freedom, and applied it, things like the TOU wouldn't be necessary.  But as things stand they are, and for good reason.
peace/love
John

Thank you John…….I appreciate that. And I'm sure you'll agree that the highest level we can all acheive is the level of maximum tolerance for our freedom of speech.

Siona,
There's nothing really that I can answer to your post. Basically you say that if I don't agree I should leave.
Spirituality is about openess, acceptance of shadow. I see these guidelines as fostering restraint on people. I am not advocating stupid behaviours and conflict. I am saying that if we do not allow them, we create shadow.
I am for openess and the development of skills to work through conflict. That's what growth is about. Avoiding darkness by beeing all light just fosters shadow.
Now Zaadz has changed a lot since I first came here. So I do not really enjoy your example that one should not join a community if one knows it's rules. Things have changed along the way.
Now I clearly see where Zaadz is heading. All the messages I recieve from the Team on my private email are commercial ones. I don't make any distinction between spiritual and non spiritual shopping. 
It seems you want people to behave well here, and I think this is certainly good.
But it's not what Zaadz was about before, or a as I saw it…or as it was possible to see it.
You do your job and that's fine. I don't really hold it against you.
So yes, I'm leaving. I'll be here for another week so I can get some of my friends email. I won't make any trouble till then..LOL
Be well,
Patrick

Another quick comment…
Siona, it seemed you asked for ideas and suggestions. You reacted at mine with: if you're not happy leave. I can agree that maybe they haven't been voiced in a cloud of appreciation and then suggestion. I voiced them loud and clear and a bit harshly.
Anyway, I think that you are asking for consent and not really ideas.
I'm restating that to put such terms as Higher or Highest Self in a guideline is a tremendous mistake. Wilber has done it on his forum, it has been one of the guideline of the I-I pod on zaadz (following Wilber) and my perspective is that this is killing the energy level.
None of you might want to talk about it, as I'm quite sure you are going to implement these guidelines. But my guess is that in time it will drain the energy out.
 Higher Self is difficult to define, or impossible. It cannot be a guideline. Never.
My vision of Higher Self is different from all others. I can say:
Siona, your answer to me violated the guidelines as you didn't talk from your Highest Self!
Ramana Maharshi was in his Higher Self: he didn't talk. Nisargadatta Maharaj was in his Highest Self: he talked, got angry, was joyfull! Osho was in his Higher Self: He said and acted as he wanted. Andrew Cohen is in his Highest Self: he practices sometimes tough love. Chögyam Trungpa was in his Highest Self: he drank smoked got laid and was tremendously joyfull and crazy! Ma Ananda Mayi was in her Highest self: she was all love.
The higher self expresses itself in many ways, and that is the beauty of it. It is spontaneous, particular and always surprising.
This is not what you want here. You want to make rules and guidelines that helps Zaadz functionning. Fine…That's good. So make clear rules. end.
You are projecting your limited vision of Higher Self on the whole community. 
Arghh! Stop that massacre!LOL
Ok now I'm done.
much love to all of you,
patrick

Values, community, and being your highest you.Thanks to anyone who spends part of their day making this website available as a special place, “A place that's committed to inspiring and empowering people to live at their highest potential”, which to me includes changes for expansion; and as I see it for art, as art is something that improves the quality of life. I thought that getting accepted was a gracious acknowlegement and important, especially at a time when deconstuction and criticism seem to be the national sport. Zaadz is also a validation of the work of artists in less “artsy” fields, whose appreciation of the interplay of relationships in the universe enriches the daily lives of many.

It's true, I am a Scientologist, and I have been for over half my life.  But if anything, my religion has taught me to think for myself.  When good people of whatever faith, are sacrificed on the altar of public opinion when they are only guilty of thinking for themselves, I notice it, and I speak up.

I'm not much of a fan of critics, especially these days when there are such an abundance of them on the payrolls of every newspaper, etc.  It's not the individual critics I hate, mind you, it's the whole impulse. I even hate it in me, and consider it one of my projects to evaporate any desire towards criticism of other well-intentioned people that I can detect in myself.

Today we have recourse to digital tools that have revolutionized the arts. You can build websites, paint, compose music, edit films, design buildings, all on your laptop while drinking tea & having a snack, if you choose. Basically, there is no excuse anymore for anyone who claims to be interested in the arts to not be very productive. It's just too easy.  So we as a society should demand that anyone who wants to call themselves a professional critic, should make available on a website for all the world to see, an example of their efforts in the very field they intend to be an authority on. Music critics- let's hear your songs and symphonies. Theatre critics- where is the play you wrote on the subway to Times Square? Art critics- let's see the images you made on your laptop in Soho. Film critics- you hordes of imitation butter-flavor fingered typists, tell us where to view your short film please. We'll patiently wait for the download.

This will make honest men and women out of the few really devoted critics who take on the challenge, and it will thin the herd considerably. With every critic activated as a productive artist, we will have more works to view and listen to, and less carping and complaining. Many will probably quit of their own accord, since artistic creation is so much more rewarding than casual, random destruction.

The real dividend for the culture will be the conversion of critics into artists. We always need more of the one, and seldom have a hunger for the other.

Artists believe that by using what they know about aesthetics, beauty and truth they can help themselves and others with the problems of living.  Myself as an artist and spiritual being I have found Zaadz the only site on the web with so many friends on this wavelength.  In fact I have only encountered 2 people that ever criticized my religion, which is one of the reasons I decided to speak up here.  I respect all religions and know for certain we are all seeking a very similar thing in reality here.

We need the guidelines and rules because people love games and games have rules and Zaadz is no different.  Policy helps keep the show on the road so we can achieve our goals and purposes toward better survival for the group.

When people write of leaving here,as a “solution” to unhappiness  Just quietly leave without sorrow.  Why upset the whole group over an individual issue that should be handled internally?  When in doubt, communicate with those on the team but not as an intention to restimulate or push others buttons.  Never cause something that you wouldn't want to experience on yourself and only cause those things that others can experience easily.  I will do everything in my power to help Zaadz and those that want to learn and expand with this amazing group. 

Kes,
You say: “We need the guidelines and rules because people love games and games have rules and Zaadz is no different.  Policy helps keep the show on the road so we can achieve our goals and purposes toward better survival for the group.”

I think you did not understand what I wrote: I don't question the need for rules and policy. I question their phrasing. You say “When people write of leaving here,as a “solution” to unhappiness  Just quietly leave without sorrow.  Why upset the whole group over an individual issue that should be handled internally?  When in doubt, communicate with those on the team but not as an intention to restimulate or push others buttons.  Never cause something that you wouldn't want to experience on yourself and only cause those things that others can experience easily.  I will do everything in my power to help Zaadz and those that want to learn and expand with this amazing group. ”

I'd like to remind you that it was Siona who suggested I leave if I do not suscribe to the policy. She did so overtly and not in PM. I did just respond.
I also find your remark quite covertly agressive:”Why upset the whole group over an individual issue that should be handled internally? ” It means to me: you upset everybody, so leave quietly without saying what you think.  
Individual issues always have a collective importance and value. No collective experience can by pass individuals.
Actually, in group therapy it is called a binocular vision: an alternating between seeing individuals and then the group matrix. Forget one of the two…and it's the end.
Now if I'm upseting you, I suggest you don't read my posts and comments. You're free to do so. But as long as I'm not disrespectful towards you, I'll enjoy my liberty of writing freely my ideas.
P.S. As for me I don't care what your religion is. You're free to choose and i can live with that as it will cross-fertilize my own path in some way or other.

I am new to the board and at first wondered what I had posted that would call up TOU on me.  However, I soon recognized that all boards must have a clear understanding between the Board and the users.  I do love the way it is presented.  Thank you.

DO unto others as we would be done by …

The SEASON's GREETINGS to ALL @zaadz …
and their transparency of words, values & ACTIONS

~Kes.
I'm delighted you shared and spoke up about who you are and what you believe in as a person as well as a Scientologist. I don't know much about Scientology, but I've been impressed with some interviews of high profile scientologists (eg John Travolta). I do know that here in Germany for the most part, it is approached similarly to the Falun Gong in China - a dangerous cult that should be wiped out. Something is very wrong with this picture.

I used to think sannyasins were weird and culty and dangerous. Now many of my friends are sannyas - and my own teacher was Osho's right hand man for years. Actually meeting people who are connected to such groups, and actually experiencing what goes on is very different to standing on the outside and looking in and saying that;s 'strange' and therefore dangerous.

Patrick: Osho was in his Higher Self: He said and acted as he wanted.

Is this true? How do you know it is true? Do you talk from experience? I suspect he was in his Higher Self much of the time, but all of it? I know many people who were with him most of his life, including at the end. From what I hear, he was sometimes on, and sometimes not. Same with my teacher. Ken Wilber talks about this.  Enlightenment isn't a 'fixed' state - you can be clear in some areas and not in others. To bandy about generalizations like Osho was in his Higher Self  isn't helpful imo.

Spirituality is about openess, acceptance of shadow. I see these guidelines as fostering restraint on people. I am not advocating stupid behaviours and conflict. I am saying that if we do not allow them, we create shadow.

I hear you - or at least this is my experience - perhaps you don't feel heard.

My sense is that we be here as we want others to be. So if you see someone's shadow arising, allow it. Be with it. It's up to each one of us to put into this community what we want from it.  For some reason I feel you are placing an awful lot of power in the hands of the team - yes they can 'delete' profiles and wave fingers about, but what about you? You are standing up here and stating what you believe in - that's great.  What more can you do? what more can you be – to show us what you are talking about?

I wonder if there is something more going on for you -  I do see “shadow” here on zaadz, and I do see people responding to such in exactly the way you suggest, ie. openess and the development of skills to work through conflict.  Has this not been your experience? If not, what would you like, specifically, to see supporting this?

I have had several people 'angry' on my pod - threatening to leave etc - i.e. “shadow”.

I have publicly stated when I felt a post was 'inappropriate' according to the terms of the pod -  perhaps not coming from my highest self, I don't know - I said what I felt to be true in that moment and was willing to stick around and be there for whatever the consequences of my post.  People have gotten really 'upset' with each other. And, no one has been removed from the pod - and every instance of 'upset' or anger has evolved into something else because of the commitment of the people there to 'be with what is happening' and to communicate and listen. My pod is not unusual, I am sure of that.

Do you feel unsupported here, Patrick? And by that I mean do you feel that if you get angry or upset or come from your 'lower self” that you will not be given the space to work through this? Has this been your experience here?

I do not see any purpose in specifically encouraging 'anger' and I feel that we all need every encouragement to 'recognize' when we come from an automatic, reactive place.

As John said: So the first “rule” (which really isn't a rule at all but a guideline for spiritual living), is to look within at the self first.  If someone triggers you, if you're angry, hurt or just feeling indignant, understand that ego wants to blame “other” because it's the nature of ego to do so, and instead turn and look within.  If every person who is on this site understood that inner work is the source of true freedom, and applied it, things like the TOU wouldn't be necessary.  But as things stand they are, and for good reason.

Do you personally feel, Patrick, that your 'shadow' has not been 'allowed' – i.e. that you have not been given the support to look within when it has arisen?

Perhaps things cannot be fully heard or seen in an online forum. And there are so many avenues here for support – simply asking someone you respect to help out with a situation is available here.

In the end it is what we 'do' here that matters - we can talk until kingdom come about the guidelines or ToU's but what is each one of us doing right now to support depth, expansion, personal growth?

I loved Kes' post because she talked about art. This is my main involvement here - on a creative writing pod.

With every critic activated as a productive artist, we will have more works to view and listen to, and less carping and complaining. Many will probably quit of their own accord, since artistic creation is so much more rewarding than casual, random destruction.

What does living life as art mean? David Deida talks about living our lives as sacred art.  I can't give any links because this is what I remember from participating in his 3D intensive. He encouraged everyone there to find their means of expression - dance/martial arts/voice/writing/acting/painting/ or simply 'being' and to live it fully, to stop with the talking about living but to actually live – as brightly as possibly - to go to the edge, to face our fears of not being accepted or failing or not being heard or acknowledged.

As a writer, I do this everyday - face the fear that I am nothing, that I will never get beyond the blank page. Is this not the fear each one of us faces in every moment? That we are nothing? I have to accept over and over again this truth - that I am nothing – and to still 'do it' anyway. In this I find the 'verb' of life - that it is in my doing that I experience bliss, it is in writing that I am a writer.

I guess what I'm saying is, once more, that it is in each of our hands to be, to live our 'truth', whatever that is in the moment – and zaadz, in my experience, has infinite capacity to hold the space for our unfolding.

Love,
Sandra

Fee,

In comparing Zaddz ToU and MySpace T's and C's,

MySpace - makes it very clear that they can cancel memberships, or delete content at thier discretion, without recourse.

Zaadz - does not do this, we offer members these rights as pod administrators.

MySpace has a list of prohibited content a mile long.. here are a couple:

Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of MySpace.com:

Zaadz on the other hand, chooses to invite its members to use their spiritual discretion, and instead of taking sole discretion about censoring a member or its words, we kindly encourage people to find a site that brings them joy.

Zaadz is the most free thinking, open, respectful community I have ever known, and we are all very fortunate to be given the individual freedom to govern our own contributions in consideration of the whole.

With love,

Dave

Hello Sandra,
Thank you for your long response. I don't think I'll be able to do justice to it.
About Osho…and all the others for that matter: yes, exactly, they probably were not always in it. But we cannot know when they were. We decide that at a certain moment they are not….Why? simply because it does not fit with our perception of how it should be! 
That is why this is too complicated.
You ask if I've felt a lack of support around shadow issue: I think things have been good till now. I mean nothing special. Conflicts resolved, some not and many beautifull encounters
I'm simply explaining my point of view for clear rules and guidelines, in order for many different people, from many different communities, with different spiritual and dialectic approach to live together here, in a free space. The phrasing really does not appeal to me and it is full of double binds.
For example:”Be yourself.Seriously. We don't mean this in a superficial sense. Zaadz provides the space for you to show up as your deepest, truest, most authentic self, so that you can see and encourage that spirit in others. So be that self! When you post, speak from your heart. When you respond to others, check in with yourself first, and commit to understanding your own reactions so that you can take responsibility for them. While you're here, work on being the most amazing 'you' that you can. And keep showing up from a place of reverence, compassion, and respect. compassion, and respect.”
Be yourself…but then, they define how beeing yourself is. This is truly a double bind.
It goes so much against my gut feelings that I can't do nothing but say what I think. I also see that there's a tremendous gap now between my gut feeling and what is happening here (are my guts my Higher Self..LOL).
So let it be.
Big hugs to all of you - seriously!
Patrick

Since joining Zaadz two months ago, I have met so many new friends, and some in particular have become closer to my heart than almost anyone I have ever known. 

One of those beautiful people is a Scientologist, making us a pretty Odd Couple as I am a devout Roman Catholic. I would go so far to say that if Zaadz has one weakness, it is responsible for building incredibly deep relationships between 'strangers', but it does not have the facility for new friends to reach out and pysically hug each other. My heart aches sometimes, because this good little Catholic boy cannot hug his Dianetics mentor.

Whether one chooses to believe it or not, Zaadz's values honor Scientology, Christianity, Buddhism, Janism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, aethesim, agnosticism, republicanism, socialism,  communism and freedom of speech.  It does so by rising above anyone one of these belief systems, and asks it members to experience a world where we share our energies  openly and respectfully, as equals.

Zaadz honors freedom of speech with great integrity.  What Zaadster's provide in return, is an open mind, and open heart, and above all respect for every individual.

If these values inexplicably chill one's blood, it is illogical to hang around.

Dave

I agree with the big hugs!

Sometimes it is just really difficult to communicate, especially when some folk get what you are saying and some don’t. Its not like we all meet for a drink, or work together, or play together,

If I may use an analogy for what is going on between some of us.

If we all joined a baseball team, we all have an idea of what we are in for: To play baseball. But ‘to play baseball’ can obviously mean different things to each of us. To some its nice to belong to a group, to some it helps them learn how to play better in an encouraging environment, to some its how to focus on being better personally, to some it to win at all costs, and to some its to help the team become better.

Lots of these folk will have a hard time if ‘to play baseball’ is not what they thought it would be. If it’s a community team with no thought for competitiveness, it will upset those that find meaning and purpose in competition. Same goes for the rest in their own way.

Zaadz ‘baseball’ is a little different. The team wants commitment from each person for taking responsibility for themselves. Some people will see this as ‘not the baseball I signed up for’. But the problem is not so much blaming the team for having a purpose that is not to your liking. It is about realizing that there is more ‘to play baseball’ than what you initially thought.

That is what life is about yeah? Life is much more than we what we signed on for. This team wants us to be our best, for the sake of our growth in becoming more response-able.

That is a good game methinks.

… and Patrick,
The double-bind, I hear you mate. It is a real bummer. In my experience, it means first walk in lots of other folks shoes and find empathy for their position AND THEN walk in your own shoes and find your own position. Thats a lot of walking! And really it doesn't stop… finding yourself to BE yourself has a path that is unique to us all… it gets easier with practice. The tension does not go away, its what moves us to keep going forward, instead of settling, but when we are fed up, its a pain in the ass. Been there, done that, and it doesn't stop either, but it also makes me think… well, how did I get here? And then you start again… its a bummer man, but what you gonna do? The walking IS our life…
Hugs!

There is NO tension in being oneself.  Tension comes from the measuring tape that each other human outside of us holds up to others rather than themselves.  Sometimes I laugh at others' tapes.  Sometimes I burn them down.  See, I honor that others choose to have tapes even if I do not.  To those with tapes however, one could assume they are always assuming and imagining that I also have such tapes. 

I continue to see discussion of ONE.  ONE is not something to get.  ONE is what is.  Every piece, part, and parcel perfection just as it is.  Imperfectly perfect.  The balance is only ever disrupted when one attempts to adopt what comes from outside of oneself, thinking it creates ONE.  I suppose someone will want to correct me now… and I will be amused.  I like knowing what others really think and feel on their own.  It shines through in the ways they communicate.  It shines through in the lack of personalization and the repetition of who other's are.  Sometimes it is the same, as people identify strongly with other's ways. 

We is used many times in individual posts.  Who exactly is we.  Many times we is NOT me, so I must conclude that I would like to assert this.  To me, on this site, WE would be the stockholders and governing board or whatever structure Zaadz chooses to adopt those persons.  There are no identifying markations on persons here.  To note them as WE.  So, when so many use that word in posts.  It makes me laugh.  There are so many forms of perceiving power and power struggles.  Who has it, who wants it, and what will the outcome be?  Keep thinking, we all will until we die…and then maybe we still will think.

elisa

It appears as if we lost Patrick. Everyone can make of that what they will. It is true that he was gently asked to leave, and therefore he felt unwelcomed.

I wonder if Tom Cruise's wife (and many of the other people I've read about) find it easy to “think for themselves”. That too is for everyone else to judge for themselves.

KES, you were the first person not in a subway station to share some of your thoughts on Scientology with me. And since I call it like I see it, you came across as grounded and centered, you made sense, and had some good things to say.

The trouble I've found about Scientology after my research was that the problems start coming in down the road, and that the giving of money is the key to reaching higher levels.

And I'm finding that MONEY……seems to be at the root of a LOT of these “enlightened thiniking” groups. Courses, books, marketing and money.

Again, that's MY opinion and everyone can judge for themseleves. Hopefully without being shown the door.

I for one will not choose scientology based on what I've researched and that's my right.

What I do notice quite a bit here, is that if one becomes a passionate questioner, they can count on being checked. It may be dipped in honey at first, but I see it.

A lot of people do a LOT of typing and say things that I personally find obvious, but seems designed to make the reader say “OH YES! THAT IS LIKE SOOOO RIGHT ON!!! YOU ARE SOOOO AT A HIGHER LEVEL!!!

I read a lot of the enlightened thinking stuff and say “Well, yeah, I mean it's obvious.” But it may often be overthought, overwritten, and there may be a book or a course at the end of said rainbow.

KES, you said you are not a fan of critics……you then go on to use the word “hate”

I think what many intelligent questioners find here is that critics are not only not appreciated, but may even be shunned. Whereas I think that critics MAKE the show of life better.

And this is starting to take that turn that I was concerned about. STARTING to…….so I'll keep an open mind still. My concern is NOT with the RULES……it's in how they are APPLIED…….not the fact that someone's free speech isn't “liked” or “appreciated”…….but what is going to be DONE about it.

As for me. I am not Patrick. I don't quit anything. There is aboslutely nothing that anyone can do or say that would make me up and leave. You would have to outright fire me, and the only thing that would do is knock down the value of the firer.

I see Dave chimed in by comparing the rules of Myspace (a great place for 12 year old girls to hang out in) to zaadz. Was this another attempt at a “nudge”? If so, nudges only plant my feet stronger. I couldn't care less what any other chat room's rules are. I have ONE question……..censorship, how will it be appllied?

I often find that there are lots of schools of thought that seem to cross each other……it's almost as if there are people who take an older school of thought and then tweek it, repackage it, “new” it up so to speak and voila! They're a guru. But there are lots and lots of obvious connections………Scientology……”light” thinkers…..Cohen……Wilber……Shadows…..and on and on and on.

They all may be defined more by what they have in common, than by how different they are.

I see comparisons to baseball……..I suppose one is either “on the team of off the team”

Then I see talk about “The ONE”. I suppose that could start getting into “groupthink”

I consider myself a free thinker. But I'm also a healthy skeptic…….with a New York set to boot. I believe in justice, helping the weak not preying on them. I stand up for the little guy, the voice that's not being heard…….I'm just as much into love as everyone else. But I talk straight and that's the way I'm going to be. That's who I am. Never will this change, and never will I sacrifice or diminish my values for anyone or any group.

THAT is integrity.

Thank you, and I will miss you Patrick.

John

Yo, Fee my man, what a wonderful read this was.  I joined Zaadz over a year ago and only recently started participating and most of the invites I get lead me to someone's site or an ideology that in the end, costs money, so I get what you're getting at here.

I am like you … I have been censored on other sites in the past, but I keep coming back like a tic on a dog. 

At the moment, I'm trying to grasp the seed thing.  I have 58.  I also have few friends because I don't think to invite people.  So…I'm obviously not a big participant on Zaadz, although it has nothing to do with the Rules and Regs.  I like much of what has been posted here regarding them, however, I … like you, come back to the censorship question.

I guess only time will tell, so keep sharing your thoughts and I'll do the same.

In kindness,
Soozi

Thank you Soozi……..something tells me that overall, the skeptics are much quieter than the proponents. And like I said, I stand for the quiet, little guy.

This is the BEST site I have EVER been on. There are GREAT people here. Kind, warm, fun, intelligent people here. I have been on quite a few sites over the last…….10 years….and this is the best, hands down.

Have FUN with the seeds. From what I can tell, they don't MEAN anything and don'thave any impact on your “status” or anything like that. I do like to give seeds to a new friend as well as to posts I like, friend or not.

And just like in life, invite friends who you think you have things in common with…….or even those that you just find interesting, even if they're not “like you”.

Balance.

Reading all these posts, I think we are straying from the topic as originally presented; but at the same time discussing some issues that needed to be discussed. I see engagement, movement, and growth in the discussion.
Going back to Siona's original question - “Should we create a little 'our values' link in areas like the blogs and pods?”
My answer is: why not?
——–
However, the way Patrick was asked to leave, is disquieting. Who was at their highest self at that time? I think Siona, I'd like you and the Team to define these terms when there is dissent. That would help. It not clear how dissent is to be handled: internally and in others. Does the Team want people to voice dissent silently [oxymoron alert!]–I mean, to be silent if we [sorry, Elisa, that's my writing style!]  disagree; or to say it politely and then be silent ; or …what?

What about members who are friends with other members; but annoy the Team? In other words, who is going to moderate- the community, as the Seeds system is set out to do, we were told; or the team? I think all this needs to be made clear. I don't THINK I was on Patrick's network; but I suppose others were - which means, they wanted to be  and approved of him [we have to assume]- he may have got 'I like It' and approval seeds —would any of this count if someone is asked to leave?

And what about this post of mine? I feel I am being concerned, caring, but not agreeing with everything said here. Does this mean that I am not in my highest self? [I define highest self as the most expanded one can be at a given moment; and much more..]. So with great love, dear Siona, but also concern, I think we need to get clarity here.

I'd like to know how you are moving individually and collectively; and what you would have liked to hear on this thread, Siona.
Thank you.

How dissent is to be “handled”?

It shouldn't!

There's just way too much analysis and re-analysis of all of this. It's just way too much. Sometimes the answer is “nothing”. Who says we have to DO anything? Can't we just get to a point where we move on and BE? Can't we just go back to fun and chat and sharing and stop trying to build some sort of grand police department?

Now, of course………..someone becomes VULGAR……….someone SPAMS with PORN or something………someone starts preying on CHILDREN……..

I think THOSE would call for “policing”…….

but all the rest? This conversation may actually never end at this rate.

Maximum liberty, maximum tolerance, maximum free speech. There is no need to control anyone.

It takes away from other things too. Where's the sports? current events? the mall shooter? politics? The WAR? Why aren't we talking about what's going ON in this world? Because we're stuck on the issues of micro managing. Micro? It's almost NANO managing.

LET'S HAVE FUN.

I am also in a quandary about the interpretation of 'highest self'.  Each one in zaadz, I assume, is in her/his own level of self-awareness and so one's highest self will be at different levels actually and it's not static as each one grows in that self-awareness.  Aren't we suppose to help nurture each one's growth rather than judging that one has not been in his/her highest self based on behaviour?

On another note, TOU I agree sounds rather sterile for an exciting community such as zaadz.  Why not use core values of zaadz community instead? So it doesn't sound so restrictive.  And I like the idea of this appearing on every member's home page.

Kudos to you. Well said. My policy is honesty always. Never try to be anyone other than who you are. You are most honest with yourself and others when you are yourself.

Your house rules are good ones and help create an atmosphere that makes me want to take of my jacket and stay awhile.  Your Zaadz Community Guidelines are basic, brief and to the point and are good reminders for everyday life, especially that we are responsible for our own reactions to what someone else says, our reactions tell us about us not someone else.    I think when a member joins each pod he/she  is reminded of the rules of the house.  I love your place, so warm and loving!

Patrick, before you leave, I hope you will read Debyemm's blog and comments:

http://yhd52754.zaadz.com/blog/2007/12/zaadz_as_intentional_community_and_the_role_of_elders#comments
This is IMO the most important discussion I myself have run across about the Zaadz site. (Second would be the current discussion, which itself is on a meta-level compared to most of the discussions about the Seeds System.) It is on another level of perspective entirely, a meta-level. In the context of society, of history, of the global community, of the lifespan of communities in general, and what they require for thriving and longevity. I commend it to everyone. I don't agree with every thought, obviously, but the level of discussion, the scope, the depth of insights, offer something profound for us all to chew on.

—–I see Patrick is already gone. I would not have divorced HIM that readily……

Blessings, OM Bastet

Let Us All First Let LIGHT (for lack of a better word) Eminate through our Thoughts, Our Words, Let us truly Find LOVE and Appreciation for Our Own Selves. If We cannot Love something about us, forgive, forgive, and be open to release all that does not serve us, so we may better be of service.

Then Let this same Light ( Understanding, Compassion, Patience, Kindness) Eminate in our Home, our Children, Our Families, Our Jobs, Appreciating all who add to our experience whether they add something we prefer or not.

Truly the answers are simple, we (Humans) are just evolving into better understanding of how to live these simple concepts.

I believe in a God, a Higher Power, I also believe that we have a Soul Group (Angels??) that guides us,  I Believe that the words are not Important, but the concept is, even if it starts with this simple concept….

We Are More Than This…More Than This Life….More Than This Body….More Than This….More Than This….

Truly This World Is Awakening, And Your/My Awakening is an Integral part of it

And this Worlds awakening is an integral part of an Expanding Universe

And that same Expanding Universe Is Helping us here on Earth to Awaken…and so on, and so on….

If these words seem strange, just sit with it, ask yourself if any of it seems true, and then start there.

Please Make friends with Us, so we may help eachother in this great Awakening

Love and Light

Ai. I meant to get to this earlier, but I spent most of today at a tyre shop, waiting for a set of studded snows. Next year someone remind me to go earlier, hm? When I showed up there were fifty other cars ahead of mine.

Phew. Anyway. I'm home now, and just wanted to share a few words before dinner.

First, I wanted to clarify something that Patrick mentioned. We asked for ideas and suggestions, but not about the terms and values themselves. The paragraphs above are the principles upon which Zaadz was founded, and the principles to which everyone posting here agreed when they checked the box to join. They're not up for question. The question was whether or not they needed to be made more obvious. That's all. :)

(I'd also like to say that we're not shadow-deniers, and that I hope that the terms make that clear. They don't demand that everyone just “be nice.” Instead, they ask that we look at what comes up within us before responding. They ask that we OWN our stuff, rather than reacting or insulting others. I'm obviously aware that no one can fully do this, and that it's an always-and-forever ongoing process, but frankly, if someone's shadow-boxing starts injuring others, they'll need find another ring to hash out their issues.)

I also don't think this need be an all-or-nothing thing. (Obviously!) It's absurd to think that everyone can, or would want to, always stick to the guidelines above. However, we're not always on this site, and it's only when you're on Zaadz that we ask you respect the values above; in other arenas, of course, you're free to take on different approaches. (And Fee? I have no problem telling those who refuse to do this to “take a walk, buddy!” You and I just have different ways of doing so. :) Again, Zaadz isn't for everyone—and as far as I'm (and the rest of us on the team are) concerned, that's totally fine. We're not into converting people.

As to the issues of free speech and tolerance and censorship… perhaps another analogy might help. This site isn't a country, and it doesn't pretend to be. I wasn't elected to this position, just as no one voted for Brian to start the business, and his decision to sell it (and who to sell it to) was his alone to make.  I don't think there's any way around that fact. :)

And so, I think it makes more sense to compare this space to a cafe or a for-profit community center / performance space. If you're sharing a cup of coffee with a group of friends at a private establishment, you're obviously free to talk about whatever you wish.

You can discuss politics. You can denounce the government. You can even criticize the owners of the cafe—you can complain about the staff and service, or comment on the weakness of the coffee. (And, for that matter, you can appreciate the business's fair trade policies, or merely chat with your friends about the person with whom you've just fallen in love, or share your dreams about your artwork, or ask for the recipe of the cookie you're eating.) You're free to do all this; what you talk about is entirely up to you.

However, if you start raising your voice, or get into a punching match with your table mate (regardless of whether or not if she agreed to the fight), or if your arguments start disrupting others who are talking peacefully, or if you start butting into other conversations even though the people talking have indicated they don't want to be interrupted, you'll likely be asked to leave… and this, to me, is utterly understandable.

It's the same with Zaadz.

Again, I just want to be clear here; this little reminder is meant to squelch opinion or cause concern, but just to serve to bring a little awareness to what it is that's up for discussion.

And Meenakshi… what I would have liked to hear on this thread? Just this—and dialog like it. OM Bastet posted a link to a concurrent discussion on debyemm's blog which nearly brought tears to my eyes. I'd like to hope it's obvious, but if not, I'll make it clear. The sort of conversation unfolding there (and here too) is what I live for. It's why I'm so committed to doing everything I can to keep this community thriving and free and accessible and alive, no matter who owns it and no matter what form or shape or name it takes. It's this dialog, and this process of communicating and communing that I love so dearly. And if I find I ever have to do anything to squelch that—if something changes in our company so that this changes—I'd leave.

Okay. I think I've gone on long enough. Also, it's getting late and I do need dinner. So carry on, all. And thank you thank you thank you to everyone who's weighed in.

My dear Siona…

It is the middle of December, in Boulder… I'll mark my October 2008 Calendar to send you a reminder to get your tires changed. 

What I really wanted to say…

I was asked in my response to the question of the day today, if your eyes were as beautiful as your profile.  

Your exquisite message above is you… it is Zaadz, and it is at the core of what it is to be a Zaadzter.  Your eyes represent all of us, and our eyes represent you.  Much love to those who respect humanity and the individual above all else.

Finally, a comment about freedom of speech that is entirely mine…

As a Canadian, I love the US Constitution even more than I love own Charter of Rights and Freedoms.  However, there is a Kingdom of Humanity that is much greater than the Kingdom of America, and if I had to choose between freedom of speech, or love thy neighbour… my neighbours will win 100% of the time. 

There is no freedom that is greater than the freedom that flows from love.  This is my personal ToU, and it is why I love to be a member of Zaadz.

Thank you Zaadz team… you rock.

:) GREAT IDEAS HERE!

Siona, thank you for such a great post.

The part of me that wants to make everyone 'happy' is upset that Patrick has left (and of course perhaps leaving is what made him happy - arrogant of me to assume what he does or does not feel). I have to say I did not understand your words to him as 'asking him to leave'.

Mostly I wanted to say I appreciate very much your strength and clarity in your post.

Love,
Sandra

Rah rah sis boom bah life is happy and great weeeeeeeeeeee!!

Super.


I support nurturing Zaadz so that it grows in love and light and spreads over our Global Village, strong, healthy, and vibrant, in the love, light and wisdom it was created by Brilliant Bri, and supported by the outstanding Zaadz team, and a garden of wondrous Zaadzsters, without any abnormal growth in the Zaadz seed.

 Furry hugs dear Siona.

Hello Siona and all here,

After reading the posts here, I was guided to respond.

–There are things that come up and for most, won't respond because it might break the rules of offend anyone. To me, I personally DO NOT believe that you can be yourself with rules. I understand that you must keep control here, but that might be tough with a huge group of spiritual beings that are so used to going with their flows without being inhibited.
But then again, people will find what they want to attract if not here, elsewhere.

–Some people need to be confronted head on and sometimes harshly to get what they are wanting. The Abeforum is a good example of this. There you could only talk about Abraham and or Abraham/Hicks. Only prraise is allowed and you must know about Abrahams Teachings to participate. That kind of control, although not like that here, really cuts yourselves from getting the real true, sometimes harsh, lessons that Abraham teaches. Then you only get the warm, fuzzy, “only what you want to here” version……and nothing is really learned with that. But then again like I said before, people will find what they are looking for. But because of the rules set up by societies, that may take way later than sooner…………..;-(

I really love what this site is and what it's trying to do. It has great potential. My 2 cents needs to be heard.

Cheers!

Fresh…………is……………in his joy

A quick response to Siona and the post from Truly Fresh just above:

Siona, I made note elsewhere too, it's my observation/impression that any discussion on Zaadz which starts out specific and delimited often evolves into a more general, more profound, more abstract discussion. It's because we have a profound purpose and think on that level. I know you and the rest of the Team share this. In this case, I think it is fascinating and worthwhile to see what and how people think about something basic to the nature and spirit of the site.

Re the post just above: (I am making the effort to respond to these points because they have popped up fairly frequently here and elsewhere, so they are general or common.)

I never saw a rule here “not to offend anyone.” I think that is an inaccurate misinterpretation. Have I missed something?

I personally believe you CAN “be yourself” with rules, though I know you are not the only one who believes otherwise. Let's just say there are rules which express myself, so they fit me exactly, and are simply part of who I am. If I encounter someone wanting me to abide by a rule that doesn't fit me, I either leave, or negotiate to change the rule to fit me, or change who I am so I feel the rule as an expression of me. Which I do depends on the situation and what I want from it.

“….going with the flow withhout being inhibited….”  My experience is that The Flow involves more than one person at a time. So “coordination” is done on a higher wider larger level of Self or consciousness than the particular individual, especially their ego or personality. I don't call expressing every impulse from my personality—which includes my shadow or neuroses or illusions or hangups—as “going with the flow.” “Inhibits” is a difficult word; the coordination brings forth some things and not others, and when I am in the Flow I don't feel the least  “inhibited” with respect to anything that does NOT flow forth into expression. That just isn't even an idea.

I hope no one interprets what I say to mean that I advocate muzzling people, or censorship, because I don't. I am suggesting we take the time to think carefully about  an actually complex matter which calls for refined thinking and accurate interpretations of what other say. Which often means asking them to clarify what they mean, not making assumptions.

So if I have misinterpreted anything in what I say, I invite clarification. 

Blessings, OM Bastet

Short and sweet, let me take this to perhaps the next level by asking a question then……..

You “ask someone to leave”

They say…….”no”

Now what?

Because to me, it's all about the now what?

I find it Amazing that in this Blog about Community and Values, we are less talking about Community and Values, and more experiencing a lot of the Reasons community doesn't work.

Bottom Line Family, Unity, Oneness, We are the same,,We will always have different words, ideas, concepts, but we all have the same true desires

To Feel Loved….To Feel Safe……To Feel Healthy and Strong…..To Feel Free To Express our Ideas, and concepts without Judgment…..To Feel that our Needs are being and will continue to be met……

When we except in any way that Your Life effects my life, Like if you drop a Nuke, It effects me, If You Eat all the Fish in the Sea, I cannot. etc etc. Then we begin to want these same basic desires for everyone, even if it is motivated by self preservation.

If and when We can agree with the previous statements, then we can open our selves to the Idea that everyone and Every Thing is Sacred, and Neccasary.

LOVE TO YOU ALL……PLAY NICE

Maybe the rules for Zaadz should be as you state here …

“to feel loved … to feel safe … to feel healthy and strong…to feel free to express our ideas, and concepts without judgment…to feel that our needs are being and will continue to be met…”

The two that resonates the most for me are feeling safe and feeling free to express our ideas.  That is precisely why I joined Zaadz in the first place.

Thank you for bringing the conversation back to what Zaadz is really about and why we are all here.

namaste
Soozi

Fee: I think that question—that is, what happens if someone refuses to leave after being asked—is clearly answered in the terms themselves:

“…should you choose to act in a manner inconsistent with these ideals, we reserve the right to terminate your account. (Meaning… we'll boot you out real quick-like :).”

(In truth, though, if they say 'no,' I'd want to ask 'why not?” and use the response there as a starting point, There's a difference between someone who wants to stay because they love the home they've found here and, because of this, are willing to respect the terms, and someone who is just attention-seeking or trolling.)

And I have a Dave-inspired question (hopefully one that will also bring about a 'next level')) in return. Instead of focusing on free speech, why not think about it in terms of responsible speech?

Sandra and OM Bastet and Fresh and Soozi and all… thank you. :)

“……inconsistent with these ideals……..”……..we reserve the right to terminate……”

very interesting.

In that case, the termination would have much more to say about the organization doing the terminating.

With rules set by others how can you be yourself? You just can't write a guided response and send it without checking it out first. The fact that you have to stop and read or worry about someone elses feelings IS inhibition. I do what feels good to me at all times and I think its rubbish to do other than that.

And as for offending anyone, sometimes thats whats needed. Someone will benefit from it, thats for sure. The point is that others read the posts and get upset about whats said even though it wasn't for them, and it escalates from there.

For me, hearing sugar coated and or offending comments is exactly what I need at that time for me because I attracted it. I benefit from everything.  I go with MY flow, not the flow.

All is Well,

Fresh

Fresh, that is the absolute worst post I have ever written by any one at any time.

Just kidding!

I hear you!

jt

Om: My experience is that The Flow involves more than one person at a time. So “coordination” is done on a higher wider larger level of Self or consciousness than the particular individual, especially their ego or personality. I don't call expressing every impulse from my personality—which includes my shadow or neuroses or illusions or hangups—as “going with the flow.” …

Yes, huge ditto. Thank you.

I have some experience of intentional communities and also of groups of people who consider themselves part of a 'family/community' albeit spread across the globe. 

This latter group has as as an underlying 'rule' that anyone at anytime can express their 'inner dialogue' – I guess this could be called freedom of expression. However, along with this is an agreement to be open to listening ( and I mean listening ) to feedback from others on whatever is expressed ( or done ), and to be willing to take a look and to take responsibility for whatever is felt, said, done. 

What is so remarkable about being with anyone (virtually or in real life ) amongst this group of people is that  there is - for most of us - an experience of 'relief' and relaxation - because I know that if I want to, it's totally okay to say things like, ” I feel really irritated by what you said” or “I  lied to you” or “I don't feel like talking to you today,”: to know that it's okay to say these things, even if I don't say them. The relaxation is mutual - because it is understood that whatever anyone feels is their own responsibility, no-one is to 'blame', and there is always an open door to share further on whatever is said.

This sharing of 'inner dialogue' is a kind of practice, one of radical honesty. At first what tends to happen is a lot of surface gross level stuff: I like you / I don't like you / I'm angry etc. But if the people involved are willing to be with what is and stay connected, listening, in dialogue, 'sharing', then something else happens, a deep caring, a feeling of connection. At some point, not much talking is necessary.

Now I've noticed that this practice can be misused: it can be an excuse to simply dump.
“It's allowed to say anything so I'm going to”. The responsibility part is neatly put aside, the staying, listening, vulnerable part is put aside.

For me community is not about individuals “doing what they want” - it is not about the “I” but about the “we” which arises when, as Om says, we operate from a higher wider larger level of Self or consciousness than the particular individual, especially.. ego or personality.

 
Thich Nhat Hanh said, ”it is possible that the next Buddha will not take the form of an individual. The next Buddha may take the form of a community, a community practicing understanding and lovingkindness, a community practicing mindful living. And the practice can be carried out as a group, as a city, as a nation.” (I found this quote via Siona a long time ago).

And, sorry, I know this is getting long again (Fee, if you think I'm blathering on you can tell me directly ;-)) - but I feel it's hugely relevant to 'community' – from Yeshe's blog on this subject of why next Buddha wil be a collective:

There is overwhelming evidence that the evolution of consciousness is marching on, moving from collective living, where the individual was totally embedded in the life patterns of the collective; through a gradual, often painful, process of individuation, with the emphasis on the will and sovereignty of the individual; to what is emerging in our time: a conscious return to collectivism where individuated, or self-actualised, individuals voluntarily – and temporarily - pool their consciousness in a search for the elusive collective intelligence which can help us to overcome the stupendous challenges now facing us as a species as a consequence of how our developmental trajectory has manifested on the physical plane thus far.

I sense this is happening right here, on zaadz/gaia.

Love,
Sandra

I have to admit, I had not read the rules until now.  But I think that people who will break the rules will break them whether or not they know them.  Also, if someone's personality is mean and nasty, they can't really be themself without changing who they are (which I think would be a good thing for them to stop being that way).

Absolutely Heather.

Who do you think it would be a good thing for them to stop being that way? Or is it just a hypothetical?

Siona,

Sandra brought me back here from my blog to read your response.  It is what Zaadz is most precious to me for, the beautiful thought processes exhibited here.  As you know, I started with a certain point of view about recent changes at Zaadz and in RESPECTFUL give and take with someone there on my blog, was able to shift - ever so slightly but meaningfully - my perception.  I still don't like the Seeds, they pile up too quickly and are too cumbersome and slow to give away.  And no one knows where they come from or why or what their true use is but it doesn't matter to me really.  It's part of Zaadz today.  Zaadz tomorrow will change.  I'll play along until the day comes when the idea improves. 

We move and grativate around Zaadz where we will and I really enjoyed your cafe analogy.  Yes, it is like that to me here at Zaadz.  No, I really don't need people fighting and shouting at the table next to me, disturbing the peace and so I get that concept.  Luckily, Zaadz is a maze of niches - I can get up and go somewhere else that will feel entirely different.  I can leave the noise behind, get away from the unpleasant fray, if it's bothersome.  There are always people who love a tussle or lively debate.  No one need stay where they don't fit or benefit from being in that place. 

It does feel peaceful most of the time at Zaadz for me.  And, even those occasional rough spots, which challenge my beliefs, turn out for good.  The energy here is so awesome that it has catapulted me through the last year.  There are trade-offs to maintain that kind of environment, I acknowledge that, and put myself under it's “rules” for as long as I stay (and I'm not planning on leaving).  I totally get not needing to please everyone, in fact, I get it is necessary for management not to try or the ambience will be lost.  It must be a delicate balance.

I have made it pretty clear that I treasure openness, authenticity and from-the-depths insights from those I interact with.  I nurture a caring, cooperative, co-creative atmosphere in my pod.  I cultivate that.  I try to be that throughout Zaadz and Zaadz has effects in my physical life away from the community.

I understood this comment by OM - My experience is that The Flow involves more than one person at a time. So “coordination” is done on a higher wider larger level of Self or consciousness than the particular individual, especially their ego or personality. I don't call expressing every impulse from my personality-which includes my shadow or neuroses or illusions or hangups-as “going with the flow.” …

One can easily “follow their flow” into hell, as into heaven.  What is forgotten in trying so hard to “follow the flow” is that we are meant to be the captain of our ship.  We are meant to make choices and even better, create consciously.  Perhaps it takes a bit of maturity or experience to realize that.  I find this fascination with “going with the flow” occurs early in spiritual discovery - thinking that in discovering “flow”, one is freed from having to use personal discrimination.  One can put their life at risk in the flow.  It's a bit like flowing down a creek.  It may be peaceful and calm one moment and full of boulders the next.  It takes skill to emerge unscathed.

I was fascinated by “the flow” maybe 30 years ago and it really got me into alot of trouble.  I learned to say “no” and to use a feeling device to determine the desireability of the passage.  The device I use is a sense of harmony.  When harmony is disrupted, progress generally is not the immediate result.  It's like banging your head against a wall.  One can still emerge in a new place, when the energy slows down a bit.  Harmony feels like “ease” to me but the subtlety can be missed.  It doesn't mean making everyone happy all the time.  Boulders can be great teachers and are generally not subtle at all.  Lessons are never wasted, thankfully.

Thanks, Sandra.  The hours I have to spend in a day are too limited to be everywhere at Zaadz or to even keep up with busy threads.

Deborah

I think it would be a good thing for them to change who they are if they are mean and nasty.  Those types of people are ususally that way for a reason other than the sake of being that way (you know, other issues and all), and it would benefit them much to settle those negative feelings and work past whatever it is to make themself a better person.  I also think it would benefit other people for these people to change because a mean person breaks other people down while a kind person builds others up.  Also, my Christian beliefs compell me to want to help these people change and to believe this way.
(That is why I'm going to school to become a Marriage and Family Therapist and a Grief Crises Trauma Counselor and why I am taking a class to be a counselor at my church:)

I must have had a lot of time on my hands tonight. I can't believe all this talk over ToU. I personally do not like laws, rules, code of coduct, terms of use, or commandments, having said that, I also understand the need for them. We do not live in a perfect world.

Here is something to ponder: If the population of the world all agreed on a time and day that we would wake up and behave in a fashion that has been proven over the years to be the most effective way to live our lives, as a community, we would not need rules to govern the way in which we lived.

Does altruism ring a bell? Or should I just go back to my uncluttered world of meditation?

Julia

I think that “certain people” need to “learn” and “get it” or these “people” should “change”.

Chiming in on this quite late, sorry, but I have to say something. I can't quite believe there's any controversy at all over the fact that there are terms of use, which seems to be where this has gone. No one seems to really be talking much about the question of where they might be posted (wasn't that the question?), and from the discussion, maybe they should be posted everywhere in bold italics.

These aren't rules about who you are, they're rules about how the community works. You can be all kinds of wacky, or mean and grumpy if you want. Honestly, no one minds. Read the terms.

Nobody's getting oppressed or silenced, being here is strictly voluntary and it isn't just an online free-for-all, it's a specific community with intentions and values and very loose, relaxed guidelines. No one agreed to the terms at gunpoint, I'm guessing.

So…yeah, I think they need to be prominently displayed. Obviously, there's some confusion.

And I think exactly the opposite! And that's what makes a ballgame so to speak.

Maybe a good thing to do would be to bring up some examples of people (if anyone) who HAVE had their posts deleted by admins, or have not been ASKED to leave, but had their accounts TERMINATED.

This gets back to my original point rapunzel……..it's not about the rules and how we should all have good values and treat each other well……it's not about the obvious….it's about the LINE…..and crossing that line……which appears to be undefined…..except for a comment sort of like “you'll know it when it happens” or other vague notions…..

I think it would be an excellent idea to bring up actual real examples of people who've been censored and WHY. Because that's the potential point of contention. Not “behaving” but DEFINING and ENFORCING it.

Fee, I know lots of people just click “accept” (I do that too, if I'm downloading an app, who's going to read that stuff?) but the terms of use here are labeled in giant boldface to please read them, these aren't your regular terms of use. If people still don't read them and just click “accept”, isn't that on them?

The line isn't blurry. It's a site that encourages conversation, even from the curmudgeons. But if people dislike the stated intentions of the site and feel that being constantly critical is the same as having critical thinking skills, it isn't unreasonable to ask them why they're here, is it?( And Patrick wasn't asked to leave, as far as I can tell, he was asked why he chose to be here given his stated opinions of the site and its intentions. Very different thing. The internet is a big place, no one is here on this site under duress.)

The terms of use (not the descriptive paragraph about them, but the actual terms) state that your account can be deactivated if the admins choose to do so, and they don't have to give you a reason. I don't believe that happens much here, but we all agreed that they have that right.

They also list a number of things you can't do, all very basic (publish someone else's private info, help people build weapons or viruses, nothing unreasonable in there, I don't think).

The point is, even though there is a stated intention, a kind of mission statement to create a sanctuary space online, I've followed a lot of angry, bitter, vitriolic rants which not only haven't brought reprimands or deactivation, but in a lot of instances, admins have chimed in on the discussions - and not in a critical way, but in a way that encouraged the debate.

There isn't some vague “line” that's going to be crossed and next thing you know you can't log in. But it's fair to ask people who resent the intentions and premise of the site why they choose to be here anyway and then complain that the site is what it is.

rapunzel said: “The point is, even though there is a stated intention, a kind of mission statement to create a sanctuary space online, I've followed a lot of angry, bitter, vitriolic rants which not only haven't brought reprimands or deactivation, but in a lot of instances, admins have chimed in on the discussions - and not in a critical way, but in a way that encouraged the debate.”

thanks for expressing your views, rapunzel. i couldn't have said it better myself :)

i think the reason that you have an excellent grasp of what we're trying to do here (aside from being gifted with good common sense ;)) is that you have experience in other forums and websites, and that you have a technical grasp of social networks in general. thanks for being like that! you show a great deal of understanding of the challenges that what we (as admins) have to deal with every day.

to everyone,

the first few paragraphs of our Terms of Use explicitly describe what this place is all about.

that said, i challenge anyone who thinks that Zaadz is being oppressive or intolerant or unfair to try other social networks. then ignore their terms. then do something against their terms. rant more about it. then see what happens. as a case in point: see what happened to Perez Hilton on Youtube ;)

my point: *all* social networks have terms that users have to abide with. if users violate them, they get booted out.

i'm not saying that Zaadz is perfect. but we do our best to honor our terms while extending as much compassion and fairness. usually when we kick out people, it is because they have blatantly and consistently disregarded our terms, and *not* because they disagreed with us.

as you can see a lot of people here on Zaadz express their disagreements with admins, against each other, against whomever. and that is fine. but what we don't condone here are consistent disrespectful, derrogative, insulting ways of expressing disagreements towards other members and to us admins, not to mention blatant violation of our terms (e.g. spamming, etc.). we do this to protect our high standards of:

“…creating a unique place on the web. A place that's committed to inspiring and empowering people to live at their highest potential.”

when you agree to our terms, you essentially agree to the high standards of our Terms of Use:

”By accepting this agreement, you acknowledge that you are entering this community with reverence, compassion, respect for yourself, your fellow members, and the law, and a desire to grow and to give to the world.”

so if you don't agree with our terms, or you consciously decide to consistently ignore that agreement, then don't let the door hit you on your way out.

~C

OK - back to the original question … “Should we create a little 'our values' link?”

Maybe up there in the middle space of that line that reads

“explore what's: new+ hot+ green questions and reflections           send to a friend spread the love team blog need help?”

I see that on my profile page, in my pod and on my blog page.  Maybe in BOLD CAPS.

Just a thought … to bring the discussion back on track. 

We just so love hashing things out in this community, especially since the idea of trust and reputation and the possibility of censorship (remember “folding content”?).  It just seems to me that is when it all got kind of uptight, tense, out of control, intense and concerned, among so many here at Zaadz, all at once. 

That energy does not yet seem to have dissipated.  It still seems “up in the air” so to speak and “under some people's skins” (probably not even a statistically significant quantity) and continues causing ripples in our calm, peaceful pool.  Quite a large stone that got thrown into the quiet pool with those seeded ideas.

Uh, oh - there I went and got off track again.  It is still just too easy to fall into it.

Deborah

Yes to creating a little ( or big..) 'our values' link.

Sandra

Yes, I see more of the same old lovey dovey stuff, and I see more veiled threats……..(the kind that made Patrick leave)……

But I don't see any examples of how the Terms have indeed been used IN REALITY. Show us an example! Don't be afraid! (I didn't think I'd see any examples by now).

I already mentioned that not EVERYTHING is appropriate……….I mentioned spamming porn or being vulgar with children……..you mentioned creating viruses or other activity that is ALREADY ILLEGAL!

But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about those “values” in the center….

things like this:

“consistent disrespectful, derrogative, insulting….”
 
Since I'm not planning on preying on minors, spamming pornography, or colluding with people to do any other illegal activity, then I'm gonna bring it back to these “values” that are more in the “eye of the beholder”….

Define “consistent”………..Define “insulting”……….

That's much harder to do, isn't it? And the way it'sAPPLIED can be open to all kinds of subjective interpretation, and THAT is what I'm talking about.

You say “Don't let the door hit you on the way out”


I say you're gonna have to push me out the door!


And that would say much more about the pusher wouldn't it?


Maximum Liberty, Maximum Free Speech, Maximum tolerance.

jt

Fee:

“Show us an example! Don't be afraid! (I didn't think I'd see any examples by now).”

Are you volunteering? Seriously. I don't see any “veiled threats”—I see a clear “Look, if you don't want to abide by the terms, just leave!”  No one's forced you to agree, and if you say “I don't agree with the terms and I'm still going to stay,”  then we'll deactivate you.

Why? Because, above the button you clicked to join, there was a little box which asked you whether or not you'd read and agreed with that document. If you misrepresented yourself in doing so it's not fair to the rest of the community. It's a simple issue of rights and responsibilities: if you want the right to keep posting here, it's your responsibility to uphold those terms.

Again. What you do outside this site is totally up to you: I don't think it would be practical or even desirable to enforce these standards (which are undeniably intersubjective) outside Zaadz. While you're here, though, please, please respect this space—and the desires of those who created it and who share it.

I think it was in the movie “Blazing Saddles” just before an old west fight, where the little guy asked “So what are the rules?” The big guy responded, “There are no rules!”  Before the big goon finished the sentence, the little cowboy kicked the big one in the nuts.

There must be rules in any community, otherwise there is chaos and disorder.  Anyone who suggest that is not true, is likely living in a community of one.  It's pretty difficult to kick yourself in the balls.  Believe me, I've tried.

At Zaadz, the members deserve the right to have thier sensitive regions protected, and the Zaadz team has the right to deal with offenders. 

And it is unacceptable for the kickers to reply “cups anyone?”

I said it before… every community site has its rules… you know why?  Lawyers… if there were no rules here at Zaadz, and If I said something slanderous to someone on this site the lawyers might come after me, but they will sure come after Zaadz, or facebook or myspace for that matter.

Zaadz has the most enlightened ToU's that I know of.. go check out other sites if you don't believe me.

Now you're just stepping it up another notch………….

Feels to me like you're just waiting to fill in the blank in the sentence you've already written. None of my questions were answered, none of my concerns were addressed, you just keep excercizing the power muscle.

No one is going to threaten me by proposing I be banished from a chat room. Again, go for it! It would say FAR more about you then me. I can continue to ask the same questions over and over again that no one will answer but that's not gonna get me anywhere, I can see that now. So I'm going to just move on to another thread, and do what I do. I know you don't dig me, and you're not looking for questioners or boat rockers, but we're part of life too, and I'm not changing for anyone. You want to tighten up the circle and play power trips? Ah, go ahead, that'll be on you, not me. And the day I find myself deleted I'll just move on to the next great thing in life. But we'll all know that it was a COMBINATION of the “rules” AND my personality………….the rules AND the fact that you don't dig me. And we'll all know that negative favoritism was indeed played.

Now, since I've done absolutely nothing wrong, this is all moot, and I'm going to go on to the next great conversation here.

jt

If things are being stepped up another notch,then stick around and play at a higher level!It seems to me that this is coming to a head,challenges are being tossed around,and zaadz is being challenged as a comunity.Not only here,the us against them ,is showing up in other pods.This is normal behaviour amoungst us humans,changelings that we are.The challenge is not to take it personally,otherwise it is hard to be rational,when one is reacting.hahaha just another point of view.I am not sure if this is from my higher self or just a ramble as a result of being sucked into all this information on rules and interpretation of rules…..

Nothing's going to come to a head. As I've said before, this is THE BEST site I have ever been to in my 10 year “chat room” career. Personalities clash. That's life. We all can learn something, myself included. I'm not here to go around poking everyone. I'm here to meet great people, have stimulating conversation, learn, and grow………it's also in my nature to question, peel away curtains, stand up for liberties, and let you know when my bullshit meter is going off. Take from all that what you will.

I get lots of posts of support too………it's just that most of those are private.

It's all good.

John

AH yes,this is a great place,yes yes yes….I like this post of yours,from my perspective it looks like your higher self…it is all good agreed,.Rafael

Fee,

Your message does sound like you care about Zaadz.  If you are being authentic about your respect for Zaadz, then please help me understand your attacks on Scientology, and making a fellow Zaadster upset with your poking her.

Unfortunately, as much as I wish you could find peace here, you are not speaking the entire truth. Until you decide to let others live, as you wish to be allowed to live.  You cannot have it your way, without respecting those you disagree with.

Walk the talk… walk the talk.

Sure! I'll explain it…….and for the record so far you have called me a “stalker……..who crawled out from under a rock”………doesn't sound like you're all into that whole love thing hunh?

She dropped me as a friend a few days ago, which is her right. I asked her about it and she said that it was a mistake, an oversight…………..ok………fine.

2 days later she dropped me as a friend again………..also her right.

But since you mention “authenticity”, where is the authenticity of being dishonest.? and not simply saying “hey, I don't like ya!”. Wouldn't that be more authentic??

Since our son has taken medicine for his ADHD, I felt compelled to respond to a scientologist who was putting up anti-medicne posts. I think I had that right……

She deleted the posts, and then she took a low blow and made a comment about my parenting skills and my son.

Then she deleted that!! ( I hope because she regretted going personal)

Then you came in and swung at me too!!

So…….quite frankly, I'm not seeing how I did the attacking or poking? Perhaps you can clarify this?

I DID find out that scientologists have a history of very agressively attacking those that question scientology.

Those are the facts, that's how it happened. And you're just adding more drama to it.

Quite frankly, taking a personal swipe at someone is not “authentic”, but it's ok with me. it was her right. Do I think she owes me an apology? Sure!

But it's ok. See, I'm an adult, and I can handle it.

You know, this might be the PERFECT example of what I've been talking about the whole time, and I'll let others see perhaps what I see……

I question something, and then I get one-twoed………then there's deletions, and spin, and getting personal……..then you come in and paint the situation to be something it isn't…….you spin it…..twist it……

HERE!! Right HERE is where I want my FULL free speech……..to be able to stand and defend myself with the truth and do it with passion………and not think I'm going to be censored one bit. HERE is where I want the full power of my free speech, so that I can respond without someone saying “Yeah Fee, why don't you just LEAVE!”

Hey Fee, this is the best site you have been on in your 10 years of cyber cruising,you aint going no where,besides calling a spade a spade is the truth. As you say personalities clash..I am getting something out of this,its helping me to grow just reading the words.I love your passion……Truth somehow is not always universal,its personal,so we lighten up a bit with what is our truth…like what happens to be true for KES might not ring for you and vice-versa…so what?some more interesting reading………I like what you say,it jives with what I believe………….As for me I spend so much time in the water it takes the charge off things….peace to you…..Rafael…..

Hey thanks……..and you just reminded me of something. That others might see things differently. Sure, there's a lot of truth in just laying out the facts, but that doesn't mean I'm THE keeper of it!

I was just telling someone that althought I do like to debate, I would rather “lose” than “win” one…….because when I win debates, I don't learn anything. I love the sport of a good, honest, and clean debate, but man, when someone's right and you learn something new, or they remind you of something you forgot……that's much bigger than the flat half-joy of just “winning” a debate.

And I'd like to hear more about the water thing………don't you get all pruney????

oh dude you didn't just…………oh I hope you're just talking in general terms……

you said 

 “Then we also have some very vulgar language of late which is also hate filled and personal attacks and verbal assaults even over the matters of Zaadz members stating they plan to commit suicide for the New Year.”

You're not gonna do this too are you?

Fee, I know we haven't been agreeing lately But I want to say that I understood the intention behind your comment on Pema Deva's blog. There was nothing hateful or vulgar, you were just tryig to lighten things up a little.

its like heyfee man…….to cool you just get the reactions all over…what could it be?Style?I just wanted to say about the pruney thing……the first few years i shrivelled up but stuck with the program,sometimes 18 hours of deep meditation/falling asleep…now though I stay nice and plumped up,no pruney…..whats with you and Dave?you 2 are having fun!!!

Hey thanks…….yeah, I mean, most people were chiming in with things that were sort of like 'Hey don't do it! Try my WAY out!”…….many others were simply showing support.

That's MY way……..to try a little curve ball, to throw a little cosmic flip out there……..crack the tension just enough to maybe crack a smile and breathe…….there are no bad intentions.

Kids-

Can we keep the arguing off the team blog?  Please keep the conversation relevant to the blog topic, or the comment will be removed.

Have a nice day.

Active day in the ol' Comments Corral !!! I am posting this kinda about the whole thing, and definitely I am not involved in the several comments just above this, don't know anything about those matters.

Rapunzel, you rock!!!!!!!!!!

I have two thoughts to toss into the mix here:

Last time I checked, courtesy and politeness were not incompatible with directness, truth-telling, voicing unpopular opinions, calling a spade a spade, etc. Nor, last time I checked, did courtesy and politeness mean giving up the freedom of expression. But maybe I checked in different places from some (a bunch) of the folks here.

Second, I am still amazed at how many people focus on the externals of an interaction, and aren't taking responsibility for co-creating the situation. Talking as if everything were “Just Happening” outside of themselves, without themselves being one of the causes of the situation as a whole.

So many “You” statements, when some “I” statements would be what the communications teachers would recommend, not to mention the spiritual teachers who teach responsibility-taking as the base of self-empowerment. Sure, it's good to state preferences for how we want to be treated, but it's also good to look inside to see why we are being treated the way we are; what, within us, is making that possible, especially if it's a pattern?

I am not not not speaking of any specific individuals . I'm speaking about a pattern I see in many places in the site. And, duh, the world.

I guess I prefer people who are quick to praise, and slow to accuse or blame. People who seek first to understand, and last to judge or label. People who look for commonalities before they look for differences. Maybe , we could say, those who understand the old saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Or what about the research that shows people learn better from teachers (read: anyone) they think like them, respect them. If I wanted to get someone to change, I would do my best to communicate in a way they could hear. Usually, people can't hear what is not polite or courteous. Do some people need to be yelled at, insulted, etc. before they will hear? Certainly. But it would take some time and some knowing of that person, before I would conclude that strategy is the best way to reach them.

Of course, if I am just interested in self-expression rather than communication, I will blurt whatever I am feeling/thinking, without regard for whether or how it might be received, or affect the other person. That would feel truly free, but it wouldn't get me the results I might want, wouldn't be communication.

At the risk of offending some, I offer from my heart and with some trepidation, my own list of preferences.

I respect and find resonance with all the comments here, and think this is one of the most valuable discussions about the site. Sorry this was longer than I planned, but I wouldn't say these things if I remembered having read them earlier, so I am imagining they represent a contribution to the discussion. Or maybe just a testimonial to my memory!!!

Blessings, OM Bastet

One……….definitely sees this vector! Very good! Yes! I have to learn how to see my part in things! That rings very true over here. Thank you.

Wow, what's the emoticon for a smiling heart?